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toohigh
Apr 1, 2007, 6:39 AM
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I am looking at adding about 6 alpine draws for my growing trad rack. Something light would be nice but i am not looking for the lightest setup. Mainly the most functional.
The Omega Pacific Alpine Draw looks like a good option with the doval, jc, and yates sling setup. Any other thoughts? Maybe just two nano wires on each end? Has anybody got use of the new BD oz yet. I might be interested in that option as well.
Also I dont know much about different slings. Anybody have info about things to look for in a sling? or is a sling a sling?
thanks for all the help.
-john
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lithiummetalman
Apr 1, 2007, 6:53 AM
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Like to use Trango straight-wiregate Superflys and Mammut 24" 8mm dyneema slings for trad draws. Keeps things simple and consistent.
Like the skinnier dyneema slings, easier to tie/adjust clove hitches, also easier to extend. Also provides a nice low profile, and light!
Drawbacks: Not great for friction knots: eg. Prussik. Rare, but sometimes happens: can get stuck in weird crack constrictions because of narrow stature. Can wear out quickly depending on rock type. Low melting point.
It's all a matter of personal preference! Cheers.
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climbinginchico
Apr 1, 2007, 7:44 AM
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If you wanted to go all BD, you could do the OZ and their new 10mm dyneema slings. I just compared them yesterday at REI with the mammut 8mm, and they are actually slightly less bulky, and clipped nicer.
Overall, I liked them better than the mammut ones, and I have 16 of those already! I made a couple of neutrino and 10mm slings for a sample, and man, they were sweet. Too bad REI was out of OZs.
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timm
Apr 1, 2007, 3:18 PM
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I don't like Nano's. They feel too small in my hand and I have a hard time clipping them. I prefer Trango Superfly wiregates (as a previous posted pointed out) and only weigh 2g more than the Nano's and are a full size biner.
My preference is the regular old nylon slings. I feel they are more versatile than the new high tech fibers that are slippery and have low melting points. Yes, nylon is bulkier and weighs a little more but it's still my preference.
Just my $0.02.
Cheers.
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toohigh
Apr 1, 2007, 6:07 PM
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thanks for the rockin info. anybody try the omega alpine draw i was referring to? Otherwise it sounds like i am going with a superfly setup with some 10mm bd slings? I dont have any experience with the jc carabiner but I really like the doval. Also I was interested when reading the jc biner has a wider lip which is easier on the rope than other low profile units like the Oz. The difference is probably minute. Should I take into consideration what my rope will think of these draws as well or is that just over the top?
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timm
Apr 1, 2007, 6:54 PM
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toohigh wrote: Should I take into consideration what my rope will think of these draws as well or is that just over the top?
I use alpine draws for alpine and trad. I don't plan on taking repeated whippers (or any whippers for that matter) in an alpine setting. Same pretty much goes for most trad climbing as well. Thus, I don't really care about rope radius over the carabiner. I would only think about it for sport draws used on something I'm projecting where I know that I may be taking repeated falls.
If you are going to use your "alpine" draws as general purpose quickdraws for all your climbing then you may want to give minor consideration to rope radius issues. But, otherwise, I'd just ignore it.
Again, just my preferences and $0.02.
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colemanizzle
Apr 1, 2007, 7:18 PM
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I like to use trango slings and the Omega Pacific 5-0 carabiners. They clip real well and they have a big basket. I don't think that the sling matters as much as long as it wont rip in half.
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elnero
Apr 1, 2007, 10:28 PM
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i have *heard* that the new BD slings are flat stitched, instead of tubular like the mammut ones, and therefore may have less sharp edge resistance because the material can't roll and stuff... anyone actually know if thats true or not?
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sweetchuck
Apr 1, 2007, 10:35 PM
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You might consider getting some 48" rabbit runners for some of your draws. They can be handy for extending pieces on meandering routes and you can still use them doubled up as 24" slings. Might be nice to have a couple of these over your shoulder and some trad draws on your harness.
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toohigh
Apr 2, 2007, 2:12 AM
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When and how often does the melting point of spectra come into play? As long as I dont run my rope through it wont it be ok?
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nuts_bolts
Apr 2, 2007, 2:24 AM
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elnero wrote: i have *heard* that the new BD slings are flat stitched, instead of tubular like the mammut ones, and therefore may have less sharp edge resistance because the material can't roll and stuff... anyone actually know if thats true or not?
Yes, they are "flat stitched" just like BD's nylon slings which, as noted above, does make them a little less bulky than Mammuts. But I own both slings and honestly the difference is negligible.
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shimanilami
Apr 2, 2007, 5:37 PM
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I recently got to use some trad draws with WC Helium 'biners and those skinny Mammut slings. They were the shit. Those 'biners are super light, but big and notchless and easy to clip. Those slings are super slinky and rack on your harness like sport draws. If I needed more trad draws, this is what I'd buy.
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toohigh
Apr 2, 2007, 6:02 PM
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How many trad draws do you think is adequate for the average trad rack. I was thinking somewhere between 6 and 8? I already have 14 sport draws. Also separate lockers and a couple ovals and d shapes for other uses (top ropes, anchors and such). Maybe i should make a few more or will 6-8 be enough for a good start?
-john
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nthusiastj
Apr 2, 2007, 6:46 PM
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lithiummetalman wrote: Like to use Trango straight-wiregate Superflys and Mammut 24" 8mm dyneema slings for trad draws. It's all a matter of personal preference! Cheers.
I second that.
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petsfed
Apr 2, 2007, 7:09 PM
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toohigh wrote: The Omega Pacific Alpine Draw looks like a good option with the doval, jc, and yates sling setup. -john
You'll save yourself a lot of trouble by avoiding the Doval. Its designed all wrong for its intended application. Its got an ovalized exterior so that its difficult to find the nose, but a D-shaped interior so it still shifts when waited. If you need a crab with a straight spine, my money's on the Trango Classic Wiregate. Not as light, but no frills, a little bit bigger and a slightly larger gate opening. There are numerous other straight spined wiregates out there though, so you can pick and choose. The whole point is that you can rig up a carabiner break, right? If not, get a lighter, curvier crab that will clip better.
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dlintz
Apr 2, 2007, 7:23 PM
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I use Dovals on the gear end of my trad/alpine draws. Yeah at first it can be a little confusing which end of the gate opens but overall I think they're a great biner, it just takes a little bit to get comfortable with them.
To the OP I use 10mm Spectra with some Trango wiregates and a few JCs. They work well for me.
d.
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skinny_monkey
Apr 2, 2007, 7:23 PM
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Yeah I'd say stay away from the doval - its hard to always know which way it is oriented when you're clipping. Any wire gate will do the job - best ones will be offset and the size YOU prefer.
In all reality the slings you pick aren't going to make a huge difference. I've used thin dyneema and 5/16" tubular sewn slings and I'd say I probably like the dyneema a little better. I think the coolest thing about the newer dyneema slings is that thay have a spandex sleeve sewn over the overlapping seam that is created when the thing is sewn together so they don't catch on things (when you're rigging).
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bandycoot
Apr 2, 2007, 7:35 PM
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I use 6mm mammut 2' slings with trango superflys. I typically bring 8 on a trad climb and vary as the route requires. I don't use 4' slings while leading. You need them so infrequently it's silly, so just put two 2' slings in series if that's necessary.
Josh
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toohigh
Apr 3, 2007, 5:43 AM
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So I see a lot of posts recommending the trango superfly wires. However I am surprised that I dont see posts ranting and raving about the new BD Oz and mammut moses. These two biners just came on the market and claim to be state of the art. Looking at a price comparison between the superflys and Oz it seems they are relatively the same. Why has nobody recommended the Oz and yet it is so close in design and price to the superfly?
-john
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joeforte
Apr 3, 2007, 6:03 AM
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Because the superfly is perfect in it's simplicity, perfect in feel, perfect in size, perfect in weight, perfect action, asthetically beautiful, need I go on?
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toohigh
Apr 3, 2007, 6:37 AM
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joeforte wrote: Because the superfly is perfect in it's simplicity, perfect in feel, perfect in size, perfect in weight, perfect action, asthetically beautiful, need I go on?
cant argue with that!
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bandycoot
Apr 3, 2007, 2:22 PM
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The lighter carabiners are too small. They are harder to clovehitch, manipulate in your hand, etc. Just too small for a lot of people's tastes. The superfly is not much heavier and is fully functional.
Josh
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toohigh
Apr 3, 2007, 7:23 PM
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I was just looking through the rei website and saw they had DMM Spectre draws on sale. I was thinking about maybe picking a couple of these up and either using them for sport draws for turning them into alpine draws. Any thoughts on the Spectre. Weighing in at 33grams and full sized it seems like this would be another option besides the superfly?... plus it is on sale
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papounet
Apr 4, 2007, 2:48 AM
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DMM are way larger, close to normal biner.
DMM Spectre are much easier to manipulate than other superlight biner FOR MY SIZE OF HANDS (large).
They also accept clovehitch better.
You have to handle them side by side to feel it.
but once again, no question
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