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bkalaska
Apr 3, 2007, 2:28 AM
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I have searched around and have not found very good size information on aliens. What is the actual usable sizes range of the yellow, red, and newer grey (between the other two)? Is there a gap between the yellow alien and yellow C3?
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lucander
Apr 3, 2007, 2:35 AM
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www.supertopo.com has a cam comparison chart, snoop around their page to find it.
The yellow alien and yellow c3 probably cover slightly different sizes but my visual inspection reveals little difference.
(This post was edited by lucander on Apr 3, 2007, 2:36 AM)
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floating_bottle
Apr 3, 2007, 4:25 AM
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No quantitative analysis but...my yellow alien fits the same as (or slightly larger than) my blue c4. (0.3). I know BD publishes their size ranges.
Hope that helps a bit.
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angry
Apr 3, 2007, 4:52 AM
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I was going to start a new thread on old alien sizes, new alien sizes, and how they compare to BD and Wild Country. This is based only on climbing hundreds of different cracks a year with lots of different gear. Nothing that would qualify me to make such a statement. I'm not using the two smallest aliens in this comparison.
Old Alien Comparison
Green Alien = .3 Camalot = 0 Friend
Yellow Alien = tight .4 Camalot = .5 Friend
Red Alien = .5 Camalot = 1.0 Friend
Orange Alien = .75 Camalot = 1.75 Friend (pay attention)
Purple Alien = Tight 1 Camalot = 2.0 Friend
Clear Alien = 2 Camalot = 2.5 friend or tight 3 friend.
This isn't an exact thing though. For the most part, you can stick these pieces in the same size crack. Recently, aliens have added some pieces and some sizes have changed. I found myself unable to use a new alien next to an old of the "same" size. Here is the new list.
New Alien Comparison
Green Alien = .3 Camalot = 0 friend
Yellow Alien = tight .4 Camalot =.5 friend
Grey Alien = .4 Camalot
Red Alien = .5 Camalot = 1.0 Friend
Gold Alien = 1.5 friend
Orange Alien = big .75 (tipped) = 2.0 Friend
Purple Alien = 1 Camalot = tipped 2.0 Friend
Clear Alien = 2 Camalot = 2.5-3.0 Friend
I really like having less gaps in between sizes. Really, I like that a lot. The problem I've got is that now I've got two cams, same brand and same color that aren't the same size. It's tough in Indian Creek. Outside of there, you're less likely to get gapped by these minute differences.
And this comes up a lot, so lets clear it right now.
A .5 camalot is almost always the same as a red alien.
A .75 camalot is almost always the same size as an old orange.
A 1.5 friend is the logical piece in between these two sizes. It does happen often that a .75 won't go in and a .5 looks tipped. This is what the 1.5 friend covers. I imagine the gold (mustard colored) alien does this as well.
Metolius is stupid above yellow, so they aren't included.
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granite_grrl
Apr 3, 2007, 2:50 PM
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The only way I remember the sizes of Aliens when I'm stuck climbing with other people's gear is to remember the yellow Alien is about the same size as the yellow TCU, then go up and down from there.
They're proboly not exactally the same size, but for practical purposes they seem to go into equivalent placements.
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bkalaska
Apr 3, 2007, 9:28 PM
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Thank you all. This has been really helpful. The Mountain tools site used to have funky numbers, but I asked them about it and they changed them so the numbers make a lot more sense now. Great info!
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caughtinside
Apr 3, 2007, 9:52 PM
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i haven't used the gold alien, but I find it pretty distressing that the orange alien has gotten bigger! the old size is burned into my subconscious, it was perfect!
May have to switch to .75 camalots instead, or risk fixing new orange aliens!
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tradrenn
Apr 3, 2007, 10:48 PM
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Angry: Any idea at which point the sizes changed ?
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shimanilami
Apr 3, 2007, 11:42 PM
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Angry, some advice, please?
I'm doubled on Aliens from blue to white with camalots from #1 up. I've also got one set of hybrids (black-blue, blue-green, green-yellow and yellow-red). My partner has some cash burning a hole in his pocket, and we've been discussing what pieces he should get. He's got blue through red Aliens now. He can afford about 8 more.
I'm recommending that he buys the grey and gold, and then all the hybrids, from blue-black to yellow-red, including the grey-yellow and grey red.
My logic is that he'll then have every single small piece he needs for most cragging. Further, we'll have triples on blue to red, doubles on hybrids from blue to red, and a few pieces in the gaps my rack doesn't fill.
If you were me, does that make sense? If you were him, would you do it differently?
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angry
Apr 3, 2007, 11:45 PM
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I have two theories.
1. They changed the sizes to make room for the mustard gold alien.
2. The cam stock is the same but the hole is drilled in a different place. Not quite as bad as the clearly messed up orange alien axle hole problem. The same idea though.
The aliens I've used are 5 years and older, or 6 months old. It's the very new ones that I've encountered this with.
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angry
Apr 4, 2007, 12:01 AM
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shimanilami wrote: Angry, some advice, please? I'm doubled on Aliens from blue to white with camalots from #1 up. I've also got one set of hybrids (black-blue, blue-green, green-yellow and yellow-red). My partner has some cash burning a hole in his pocket, and we've been discussing what pieces he should get. He's got blue through red Aliens now. He can afford about 8 more. I'm recommending that he buys the grey and gold, and then all the hybrids, from blue-black to yellow-red, including the grey-yellow and grey red. My logic is that he'll then have every single small piece he needs for most cragging. Further, we'll have triples on blue to red, doubles on hybrids from blue to red, and a few pieces in the gaps my rack doesn't fill. If you were me, does that make sense? If you were him, would you do it differently?
If I were you, I'd suggest to your friend to do exactly that. If I were him, I wouldn't do it though.
See, it's easy to tell someone to buy a piece of key gear that is almost never used. It's much harder to buy that key piece and watch it gather dust. I'd love to have a partner with all the hybrids. I would never buy them. Too niche. I will buy a blue/green, green/yellow, and yellow/red someday though. I've made it up some wild stuff and scary flares without them, but I can sure see their place.
I think your partner needs more bread and butter sizes. If he's only got blue-red, he's missing a lot of cams for larger cracks. It may not serve you, but building a rack is for the owner of the rack, not the partnership you've got now. He needs some larger sizes 2" and up. I prefer camalot in sandstone and WC in granite, I never prefer metolius.
If you are climbing anything other than Indian Creek, I don't think I'd recomend the grey or gold. They are gap pieces IMO. Meaning when you get gapped by the perfection of a splitter, you've got those in the middle. In sandstone, I generally don't accept as tipped a piece as I would on harder rock, thus the need for the gap pieces (this is the source of my endless ranting on BD's size change on the larger C4's. Those asswipes!!!).
I'm concerned that CCH may have made these pieces essential parts of their lineup and not just IC gap pieces. I don't about this for sure though. I'll fiddle with them next time I'm in a store.
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shimanilami
Apr 4, 2007, 12:15 AM
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Thanks, Angry. I was wondering about those grey and gold aliens. I hadn't yet come upon a situation where I needed such sizes. It sounds like they're unnecessary.
My friend has some ancient cams in the bigger sizes, so I'm not giving him really awful advice. And he wants me to drag him up the Captain for his first big wall, so I figure some manipulation on my part is justified. I think I'll modify my suggestion to drop the yellow-grey and grey-red hybrids, and he buys a new static line instead.
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lvpyne
Apr 4, 2007, 4:48 PM
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Angry --
Thanks for the comparison chart -- it's awesome. I was climbing at Indian Creek a couple of weeks ago and thought I was losing my mind when placing the "same" pieces and not having them cam "the same". Mystery explained.
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caughtinside
Apr 4, 2007, 4:54 PM
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shimanilami wrote: Thanks, Angry. I was wondering about those grey and gold aliens. I hadn't yet come upon a situation where I needed such sizes. It sounds like they're unnecessary. My friend has some ancient cams in the bigger sizes, so I'm not giving him really awful advice. And he wants me to drag him up the Captain for his first big wall, so I figure some manipulation on my part is justified. I think I'll modify my suggestion to drop the yellow-grey and grey-red hybrids, and he buys a new static line instead.
yeah, do you really think the grey/hybrids are necessary? I've got the standard set of 4, no greys, and they seem to do the trick. I wouldn't get the grey hybrids.
the grey alien is a nice piece though, but not strictly necessary. I'll generally take two yellows and two reds, and if there's sustained fingers, I'll add the grey. Or, if I'm going light, 1 yellow, 1 gray, 1 red.
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caughtinside
Apr 4, 2007, 4:57 PM
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angry wrote: I have two theories. 1. They changed the sizes to make room for the mustard gold alien. 2. The cam stock is the same but the hole is drilled in a different place. Not quite as bad as the clearly messed up orange alien axle hole problem. The same idea though. The aliens I've used are 5 years and older, or 6 months old. It's the very new ones that I've encountered this with.
yeah, the orange alien that I've used as my baseline was made in 02 or 03. I got a new one in 05, but it had the dimple of death, so I sent it back.
Before I did though, I had them side by side, and the new orange was definitely bigger than the old. Unfortunately, I can't remember if this is when it was open, but the new one was noticeably bigger when they were both retracted, so maybe your axle theory is correct...
but i traded it for a green/yellow hybrid, and bought a .75 camalot in the meantime.
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tradrenn
Apr 4, 2007, 11:58 PM
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Thanks Angry.
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