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winkwinklambonini
Sep 24, 2002, 12:07 AM
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I keep seeing people racking stoppers and small cams etc. on ovals. KEYLOCKS PEOPLE! KEYLOCKS!
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wlderdude
Sep 24, 2002, 12:19 AM
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Dude, chill out.
The only reason I own any keylocking biners is that I have found them cheap. There is no way i am paying over $10 for a biner when ovals and simple biners are less than $5.
If a little more hastle means a little more pro, that's cool.
That being said, I love keylocking biners and they are the ideal way to rack nuts. Cams, well, they are so expensive I will put them on the cheapest biners I can find!
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wildtrail
Sep 24, 2002, 12:30 AM
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I use ovals, and pretty much nothing but ovals. There is nothing wrong with it. Not a ton of difference between 19kN and 23kN, really. Don't forget, they've been used for a long time.
I rack and climb on ovals. Taken big whippers on them, short, hard falls, and everything in between.
Steve
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drector
Sep 24, 2002, 12:31 AM
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I too discovered the incredible benefit of keylocks for racking. I've never dropped a nut since I've switched.
Ovals feel terrible in my hand like they're too big and gonna get dropped. I don't like them for anything (except the keylock ovals for clipping placements on an aid climb).
Why do you want to tell people this so strongly?
Dave
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timpanogos
Sep 24, 2002, 12:40 AM
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For me, it's not even so much the nuts, as getting any/all racking binners hung up on the rack slings - yea it would be great to replace all 15 or so racking binners, but hold on to your pocket book!
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flattracker23
Sep 24, 2002, 12:43 AM
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You can get Kong keylock ovals. I have been racking my nuts and hexes on Kong keylock D's for years. I just started buying keylock ovals. I still have a lot of the Omega ovals. I bought because they were cheap.
[ This Message was edited by: flattracker23 on 2002-09-23 17:45 ]
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timpanogos
Sep 24, 2002, 4:42 AM
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Flat,
I'll have to check the ovals out, I actually prefer my nuts and tricams on the symetrical ovals instead of D's
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rickoldskool
Sep 24, 2002, 6:15 AM
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Are you dudes lossin' it? (Flattracker excluded). You talk about "ovals" and "keylocks" like their two different kinds of biners. Get a clue! There is such a thing as "oval keylocks". Oval is the type of biner, Keylock is the way the gate engages. Get it?
[ This Message was edited by: rickoldskool on 2002-09-23 23:21 ]
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estwing
Sep 24, 2002, 5:49 PM
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Is there a reason that oval, (keylock or no) are better for racking nuts?
I am in the market so I would love any opinions.
Have a nive day,
Sam
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jhump
Sep 24, 2002, 5:57 PM
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Ovals are nice for racking because the pieces are nicely seated in the bottom of the biner as opposed to jumbled in the bottom of a D biner. Sadly, most ovals are very heavy.
Keylocks are better for racking, especially passive pro, which tends to hang up on the notch of standard biners. Then when you remove your chosen piece and re-rack the biner, the piece stuck in the notch can be dropped.
Does anyone have a light keylock good for racking screws?
Jeremy
[ This Message was edited by: jhump on 2002-09-24 10:59 ]
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grandwall
Sep 24, 2002, 6:19 PM
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I'm with the keylocking guy. I replaced the two biners that I rack my nuts on to biners with keylocking gates. Sure the other biners work, will always hold a fall, and most of the time the nuts come off them easily but say you're running out a slab and you finally come to a place where you can get a nut in and you're super pumped. Would you rather get that nut in and the rope clipped as soon as possible or have to fiddle with a biner for an extra second if the nut gets hung up and take an ugly fall. It's only an extra 5 bucks. Ground falls suck.
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grippedclimber
Sep 24, 2002, 7:11 PM
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I don't use ovals if I can help it because they weigh alot. I have a bunch of them because they are cheap, but I wouldn't buy anymore. My rack already weighs enough. I don't drop nuts because I'm not a bumbly not because I use keylocks.
[ This Message was edited by: grippedclimber on 2002-09-24 12:12 ]
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spike
Sep 24, 2002, 7:48 PM
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KONG makes a keylock oval carabiner.
Richard / SPIKE
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bluesky
Sep 24, 2002, 8:12 PM
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Typical Prices:
Regular Oval - $5
Regular D - $5-6+
Keylock Kong D - $7
Keylock Kong Oval - $7
Some other Keylock D's - $8+
Petzl Spirit - $9+
I.e. look here:
http://www.pagangear.com
http://www.mountaintools.com (no Kong)
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drector
Sep 24, 2002, 8:17 PM
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Thanks Spike and Rickoldskool. I believe that ovals with keylocks were mentioned in the 4th post from the top.
I'll add to my earlier comments... Ovals (keylock or not) have low open gate strength and I'd just rather rack with a biner that I can use for other things and still have the best biner possible. There seem to be little advantage to the ovals except for the price.
The oval does seem to be better for aiders since there is more room at the bottom for clipping the other aider.
Dave
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dune
Sep 24, 2002, 9:39 PM
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I had some keylocks for racking stoppers (yeah it's better). Then I lent them to a friend and I never saw them again
So, i still use the standard oval for now. Don't diss me, I'm comfortable with it!
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tradguy
Sep 24, 2002, 10:22 PM
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I've been leading with nuts on ovals for 6 years and have never dropped one. I've got to think that if a nut that you weren't placing got hooked on the notch as jhump suggests, and then fell off the biner when you re-racked it, you would have lost that piece anyway with a keylock because it would have just fallen off the open biner rather than getting hooked in the notch.
Typical ovals weigh 65 grams. Typical wiregates weigh 42 grams. Pretty big weight difference - enough to convince me to replace all my biners with wiregates, except for the 2 I use to rack nuts. It's nice to have a couple cheap biners that I wouldn't mind leaving if I ever had to bail, plus the ovals are nice to have in case you drop your rappell device - good for making a carabiner brake.
I got pretty much all my ovals and symmetric D's for around $3.50-$4 each. Just keep an eye on REI. Every once in a while they have a nice sale on them. Of course, at this point, I would never buy another one of them again. Long live wiregates!
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crux_clipper
Oct 10, 2002, 9:20 AM
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I can't get enough of the Kong keylock ovals. The only thing i don't undestand, is why you think they weigh so much?
Your only using the mfor racking, therefore you only need like 5 or 6. A few grams heavier in a biner isn't going to make much of a difference, not when you've got like 5 kilos of gear hanging off your harness.
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tradguy
Oct 10, 2002, 1:02 PM
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I don't think they are heavier, I know they are heavier. I've weighed them on a gram scale. When I trad lead, depending on the climb, I will usually have between 8 and 12 biners with gear on them. 65 g (oval) - 42 g (wiregate) = 23 g. (23*12)/28 = 9.8 ounces, which is well over a half pound. Replace 24 biners from draws, and 6 more free biners, and thats (23*30)/28 = 24.6 ounces. In total, that's 34.4 ounces, which is over 2 pounds!! So by trading out biners I've saved the weight of a liter of water, or a pair of shoes. It definitely matters.
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killclimbz
Oct 10, 2002, 5:46 PM
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Why would a D be any better for racking stoppers than an Oval biner? Is this really a serious topic?
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wlderdude
Oct 10, 2002, 5:52 PM
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There is the Knog Helium. I can't remeber how much it weighed, but it was quite a bit less than even wiregates and it was a keylocking biner. I saw it online somewhere.
Of course, DMM has a wiregate that does not have a snag, but it is not an oval.
BD is coming out with an oval wiregate that is probably the lightest biner I have ever seen. Really thin, too. But it is the snag kind.
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 10, 2002, 6:01 PM
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The name of this thread should be:
It's stupid to rack stoppers or anything else on anything but keylocks!
Ovals are extra bad because they're heavy.
Someone should combine the following three biners:
the notch on the outside of the little blue omega wiregates to save wieght
the omega keylock wiregate
and an oval to create what the "doval" failed to do: A light wieght utility biner for stacking on tr anchors or aiding with no snag.
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drector
Oct 10, 2002, 6:08 PM
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Why would a D be any better for racking stoppers than an Oval biner? Is this really a serious topic?
Of course it is not a serious topic. As for D vs. Oval vs. keylock vs. etc... it is a matter of opinion. I like keylocks because nuts don't get caught on the hook when I'm placing them which can cause lots of other problems like falling. I also like the asymmetric D shape. Ovals don't feel as comfortable like they are not totally in my hand. Ovals ARE heavier and I like to get the lightest stuff I can for long routes/approaches. Ovals are also not as strong. "it may be heavier but at least it's weaker" just doesn't sound like a good argument to me.
Dave
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powers
Oct 10, 2002, 7:11 PM
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I rack mine on ovals and have not dropped one in 20yrs. and as far as weight being an issue i have never failed to complete a route because my rack was too heavy!
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baker_ian
Oct 16, 2002, 11:03 AM
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gotta agree with powers
if you're falling off due to getting pumped getting gear off you biners, you need to get stronger.
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