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sausalito
Apr 13, 2007, 12:44 AM
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just a quick note to fellow climbers although the person in this story was not a climber. As climbers we like to solve problems and are use to figuring things out. Long story short an acquaintaince of mine took this approach in diagnosing a "flu" about a week ago. He was younger than 40 and he died of an acute infection to one of his internal organs. By the time he sought out help he was pretty much septic.
Just thought I would share a sad story but I believe it does possess a lot of opportunities for learning..... whether its a lingering headache after a fall (subacute subdermal hermorrhage) or a hurting belly it is good to realize that sometimes the best thing to do in a situation is to seek a qualified, unbiased opinion.
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fearlessclimber
Apr 13, 2007, 5:20 AM
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agreed, you are so right. Listen to this buy he knows what he is talking about.
Sorry about your friend man.
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overlord
Apr 13, 2007, 6:33 AM
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wow, thats bad. my codolences.
many diseases have a similar symptoms than 'a flu'. sometimes its nothing serious, but other times its not.
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 13, 2007, 1:03 PM
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Thing is in this country (USA) so many are un insured and can't afford health care. We often hold off to see if it will get better cause we can't afford to go to the doctor and give up a days pay for 10 min of the clinics time...
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organic
Apr 13, 2007, 1:13 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Thing is in this country (USA) so many are un insured and can't afford health care. We often hold off to see if it will get better cause we can't afford to go to the doctor and give up a days pay for 10 min of the clinics time...
YEAH USA SUCKS. I mean there are free clinics in every major city and then some, students can see school doctors and nurses and one of my friends who is a barista at starbucks has insurance but YEAH USA SUCKS. I am so tired of hearing people complain because they were so lazy that they do not have the skills or could not find a job with insurance.
This case sounds tragic and out of the ordinary, about how many people do you think each year think they have the flu and end up dying of some major infection that the OP didn't mention? The whole story sounds made-up but whatever.
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skinnyclimber
Apr 13, 2007, 1:25 PM
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Sure Organic I see your point, but I feel that our system of healthcare is inherently flawed because it is a business, not a service.
Personally I WANT to pay for poor people's healthcare and education. I can't imagine a better way for my taxes to be spent. Much better than a war...(another can of worms of course)
Please change our system so I can pay for your healthcare with my hard earned money. I'd prefer that than paying for some insurance executive's next trip to cabo...
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skinnyclimber
Apr 13, 2007, 1:31 PM
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sausalito wrote: just a quick note to fellow climbers although the person in this story was not a climber. As climbers we like to solve problems and are use to figuring things out. Long story short an acquaintaince of mine took this approach in diagnosing a "flu" about a week ago. He was younger than 40 and he died of an acute infection to one of his internal organs. By the time he sought out help he was pretty much septic. Just thought I would share a sad story but I believe it does possess a lot of opportunities for learning..... whether its a lingering headache after a fall (subacute subdermal hermorrhage) or a hurting belly it is good to realize that sometimes the best thing to do in a situation is to seek a qualified, unbiased opinion.
This is sad, and a bit scary. I mean I feel young and healthy and if I thought I had a flu or cold or something I certainly wouldn't go to the doctor. I'd just hang out at home and drink lots of liquids and so on. I have health insurance and can see a free clinic at my university anytime, and I can go to the emergency room and my university 24/7 for almost free. (actually free because I climb with one of the docs there but that don't matter)
Point is that I HAVE healthcare and would not go for something like this. Just as a question and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but did the doctor's give you any type of information about how common something like this is?
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 13, 2007, 1:31 PM
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Hey. I pay a boatload of taxes and work my ass off and still can't afford to go to the clinic. No free clinics in my state. And yes my tax dollars would be much better served provideing health care to the citizens of this country than killing the citizens of another country....
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sausalito
Apr 13, 2007, 1:53 PM
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wow. that was unneccessary. I didnt say the dude didnt have insurance. He did. As an RN I see plenty of folks that wait WAY too long to come into the hospital for various shit. Whether a nagging cough that ends up being lung cancer or whatever. My only message was to seek out professional, unbiased opinions when it is your well being in question. Not sure how someone takes such issue with that but whatever....
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sausalito
Apr 13, 2007, 1:55 PM
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and this guy had health insurance as well. I agree that it is scary. I wasnt close to this guy but it did really freak me out a little... and I am an RN.
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bobruef
Apr 13, 2007, 2:01 PM
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organic wrote: tradmanclimbs wrote: Thing is in this country (USA) so many are un insured and can't afford health care. We often hold off to see if it will get better cause we can't afford to go to the doctor and give up a days pay for 10 min of the clinics time... YEAH USA SUCKS. I mean there are free clinics in every major city and then some, students can see school doctors and nurses and one of my friends who is a barista at starbucks has insurance but YEAH USA SUCKS. I am so tired of hearing people complain because they were so lazy that they do not have the skills or could not find a job with insurance. This case sounds tragic and out of the ordinary, about how many people do you think each year think they have the flu and end up dying of some major infection that the OP didn't mention? The whole story sounds made-up but whatever.
ahh, yes, that makes sense. the entire us population should be expected to get off their asses and find a job that has health insurance, because lord knows there are enough of those jobs to go around. while its a standard that is good to hold yourself to, its an unrealistic expectation for the masses.
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skinnyclimber
Apr 13, 2007, 2:04 PM
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So I'd like your opinion here as a healthcare professional. When should I, a young active and healthy person, come in and seek help? I really don't know. Up until now I figured I'd be fine, but you say differently. So, should I come in at the first sign of illness of any kind? Thanks.
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 13, 2007, 2:42 PM
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Sorry for distracting from your loss. just saying that i can relate. there are a lot of folks out there who put off going to the hospital because they can't afford to. Sorry your friend got terminaly ill.
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lena_chita
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Apr 13, 2007, 3:12 PM
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I am very sorry for your loss.
But I don't think this kind of warning is very helpful. The majority of people don't go to the doctors at the first sign of illness for flu and or flu-like symptoms. WHether they have insurance or not is not the point. I certainly don't call the doctor if I think I have a flu. Sometimes I'm not even sure if the symptoms are those of a flu or those of a nasty cold-- so I wait for a few days and get usually get better, so I end up not calling or going to the doctor at all...
And yes, some of very serious illnesses that start with "flu-like symptoms" can kill you in the matter of hours or days. My friend's son died from flu compications -- he was a healthy 15 yo. He was home resting and drinking lots of fluids-- the usual advice-- and seemed O.K. in the evening. In the morning he was dead.
Devastating? Hell, yes.
Can you do much about it? Nope. In the hindsight of course, it always seems like" if only they thought medical attention earlier"-- but hindsight is always 20/20.
Even for my kids, where I am of course super-vigilant for any symptoms, if I call the doctor and say: well, he/she is sick, high fever, listless, complaining of achiness, etc. (basicly, flu symptoms as far as you can tell in another person who can't describe their symptoms very well...) I am told MOST of the time to wait it out, make sure they are getting fluids and call if they get a turn for the worse or new symptoms appear.
I can always get them in to be seen, if I say something like: "I think she may have an ear infection." Or " I am concerned about strep b/c there were 3 cases at pre-school last week". But if I just say "high fever and acting really sick, amybe flu, but I don't know"? Nah, for anyone older than 2yo they don't tell you to rush to the nearest ER to check if the child has flu, as long as they are getting fluids and keeping them down.
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pastprime
Apr 13, 2007, 4:44 PM
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I am sorry about your friend. Things like that really hurt.
As to self diagnosing, however, if I didn't self diagnose and treat most of the time, I'd be in the doctor's office 30 times a year. If no one did, we would need several times the number of medical personel and facilities that we have now.
Realistically, chances are good if that person had gone to a doctor they'd have been told they had the flu and sent home anyway with the same result.
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SamScott
Apr 13, 2007, 5:04 PM
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Godbless the welfare state.
One more reason why Britain rocks.
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sausalito
Apr 13, 2007, 6:31 PM
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I am not suggesting going to the dr. or hospital at any sign of illness. You are making something out of this that I did not intend. As an RN I know how busy most health care systems are and the last thing we really need are worry warts.
My point is if you have PERSISTANT signs and symptoms and they progress instead of regress over 72 hours you may want to get an opinion. FYI most health insurance companies have a 1-800 number for policy holders to call in order to speak directly with a nurse. I would also suggest doing simple things like not ignoring sharp pain and things that simply are not signs of the "flu". This guy, who was not a close friend but rather just someone I knew, had to have ignored some severe abdominal pain for several days. We are not talking "I dont feel too good" type of pain I am talking some really sharp pain.
My point is broad. If in doubt get shit checked out or at least type in your symptoms to some of the better med websites out there. As a general rule though the most severe symptoms of the flu do NOT progress much past 48 hours and by 72 hours you should have some pretty positive signs of things letting up...
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skinnyclimber
Apr 13, 2007, 6:34 PM
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Thanks that's an excellent answer to my question, and makes me feel like I can easily comply with this advice.
Stay healthy everyone, 'cause then you can climb more.
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sausalito
Apr 13, 2007, 6:38 PM
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right. Me too. I self diagnose some shit.. .but if you say "i have the flu" and things get worse and worse and worse in addition to experiencing more intense symptoms than you are use to... well at that point you should probably not stand by your diagnosis. SO basically its okay to initially self diagnose some things but dont chisel it into concrete no matter what your condition in the future. In other words dont be stubborn. At some point at the very least type your symptoms into a google search or if you have insurance your plan most likely has a 1-800 number to put you in touch with a doctor or nurse that can give you some advice.
So I completely think that self medicating to a certain point is a necessity and as an RN I realize the medical community would be screwed if people didnt do this to some extent. But use your head.... if you say "its the flu" but at the same time you are thinking "damn I have never felt this intense pain with the flu" or "I have lost about 10-15% of my body weight in 72 hours" or "man I cant believe I got the flu that doest go away after a few days...."-- at that point seek some advice.
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lena_chita
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Apr 13, 2007, 6:47 PM
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Thanks for explaining in more detail, sausalito. I misunderstood your initial post-- I read it to mean that the guy had flu symptoms, nothing else, and didn't seek medical attention until too late.
Again, my condolences to the family and friends of this man.
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ryanpfleger
Apr 13, 2007, 7:49 PM
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The details definately make a difference here. I think the moral of the story is don't fuck up your self diagnosis. Honestly you have to take responsibility for your own healthcare. Doctors are just like everybody else, they make mistakes too. Of course you should seek their advice at times. But I'm sure everybody can come up with anecdotal evidence about the time the doctor misdiagnosed. You should know your own body better than anyone else, doctors included. Even with the advice of a doctor it is your own responsibility to accurately describe your symptoms.
As for the advice to get a real job with healthcare... It sure is nice to have, but I am self employed, and work another part time job that doesn't provide healthcare. My wife and I pay around $325 a month for health insurance, and it still costs plenty to go see the doc. There are plenty of people out there that can't get ANY job. And there are plenty of businesses that can't afford to offer healthcare to their employees. So quit it with the flag waving jingoism. Sure America isn't Angola, there is plenty to be grateful for, but no reason to hide the problems. And there is no reason for a country that spends significantly more money per capita than any other country, not to have a premier universal healthcare system in place.
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themadmilkman
Apr 13, 2007, 7:55 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Thing is in this country (USA) so many are un insured and can't afford health care. We often hold off to see if it will get better cause we can't afford to go to the doctor and give up a days pay for 10 min of the clinics time...
I've heard quite a few doctors say that the ideal medical system is:
Advanced
Fast
Inexpensive
In all practicality, a national medical system can only be two of those three things. In the US we chose a system that is advanced and fast, but expensive. In Canada they have a system that is inexpensive and advanced, but far from fast. When I lived in Sicily the system was inexpensive and fast, but advanced is the LAST word I would give it.
So which one would you give up?
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reno
Apr 14, 2007, 2:29 AM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: No free clinics in my state.
http://www.vccu.net/
To the OP: Sorry to hear of your friend's illness. My condolances.
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deadhorse
Apr 16, 2007, 6:28 AM
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you know organic this kind of thing happens more often than you'd think- a short while ago a young kid whose mother was homeless (and staying in a shelter) had a tooth infection and needed to have it removed. The insurance through the shelter for some reason couldn't cover it, the cost was $80. So they were in the process of getting it covered by someother insurance when the the infection, now an absess, burst, spread through his body, and shortly after reaching his brain, killed him.
The point is that insurance is not always so easy to get. In some areas it's considered normal to have insurance with your job. but realize that other places it is not.
Sorry for the shady details, but you can look this story up, it got some press.
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deadhorse
Apr 17, 2007, 4:32 AM
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this is the report-
http://socalgrassroots.blogspot.com/2007/03/young-boy-dies-from-abcess-tooth.html
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