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nswelton
Apr 17, 2007, 9:19 AM
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According to a search, this topic was covered in 2002, but it basically turned into a thread hijack with people telling the dude to get Kong biners and WC wiregates.
But let's not hijack this thread! I am about to buy a new set of draws and I only have access to deals on these two draws. I like the Positrons because the gate opens a little further into the basket, so there's more room to clip. I like to Petzls because they're Petzl quality.
So. Spirit or Positron draws?
Thanks for the input.
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kevinheiss
Apr 17, 2007, 11:17 AM
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Go with the one you like best which i this case it sounds like it is Positrons.
Don'T forget all quick draws all have pretty much the same rating, so o with more compfortable. If the gate opens up a little more, it akes it easier to clip in, that would be the one I would go with. Plus they are probably cheeper then Petzl.
Kevin
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ja1484
Apr 17, 2007, 11:34 AM
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"Petzl quality" is such a goofy term. Yes, Petzl makes good gear on par with any other big player in the industry. No, it's not appreciably better.
Go with whatever's cheaper.
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winglessangel
Apr 17, 2007, 12:36 PM
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kevinheiss wrote: Go with the one you like best which i this case it sounds like it is Positrons. Don'T forget all quick draws all have pretty much the same rating, so o with more compfortable. If the gate opens up a little more, it akes it easier to clip in, that would be the one I would go with. Plus they are probably cheeper then Petzl. Kevin
yeah, go with the more confortable one. But for me confort is not how much the gate opens, but how easly it does.
if the rope is 10.2mm it doesn't matter if the gate opens 2.4 or 2.6 cm but it matters if you have to be "strong" to clip or if you can do it without even feeling.
I have a set of DMM and a few hotwire by BD. mostly I never use the BD ones. Dmm's or so easy to clip, I love it.
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taino
Apr 17, 2007, 12:43 PM
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Go with whichever feels better in your hand. I don't like the way that the Spirit feels, but the dual-track gate style of the old Positrons (now called Dynotrons) feels much better. The new Positrons have a rounded gate that feels even worse than the Spirits.
All my carabiners are either old Positrons (Dynotrons) or Heliums.
T
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shockabuku
Apr 17, 2007, 12:54 PM
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I personally prefer the Spirit draws. Plus they're stronger gate open and cross loaded. They do have somewhat of a wider profile when racked however.
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granite_grrl
Apr 17, 2007, 2:06 PM
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chekc out the Posiwire draws by BD. I much prefer the wire gate at the end of the draw. Positrons are cheaper, but still quality. Don't know if I notice that much of a feel difference between the Petzl and the BD.
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chossmonkey
Apr 17, 2007, 2:47 PM
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Petzl does make nice gear, but I've never been able to justify the extra cost of their biners.
I guess I've never had an issue with the quality of BD biners either.
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scottb
Apr 17, 2007, 4:10 PM
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I have em both and like both. Though I'd prolly give the edge to the Spirits. I like the feel of the bolt-end biner in my hand and the big fat nylon dogbone. I'm pretty sure that BD dogbones are now 10 mm dynex... if that makes a difference...
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jt512
Apr 17, 2007, 5:03 PM
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The Spirits are lighter and higher in open-gate strength than the Positrons; and the Petzl dogbones are stiffened nylon, whereas the Positron dogbones are skinny, floppy Dynex. Plus, carrying shiny, new, matching Positron draws marks you as a n00b. Pros carry Petzls, and if you're questioned about their shiny newness, you can always claim that you just received them from your sponsor.
Jay
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petsfed
Apr 17, 2007, 5:04 PM
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Spirits get knocked out of whack easier than positrons. Means that older positrons will clip better than older spirits. Right out of the box, they're pretty much identical.
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devils_advocate
Apr 17, 2007, 5:09 PM
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Get the Kong biners, hands down. Although the WC wiregates are good too.
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petsfed
Apr 17, 2007, 5:09 PM
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jt512 wrote: The Spirits are lighter and higher in open-gate strength than the Positrons; and the Petzl dogbones are stiffened nylon, whereas the Positron dogbones are skinny, floppy Dynex. Plus, carrying shiny, new, matching Positron draws marks you as a n00b. Pros carry Petzls, and if you're questioned about their shiny newness, you can always claim that you just received them from your sponsor. Jay
The crabs weigh the same. The BD draw of equivalent length is 6 grams lighter. Big difference, I know. The Petzl draws are vastly superior though. If I had a choice, I'd get a whole bunch of petzl draws and put livewires and positrons on them. But you don't really have that option, do you?
(This post was edited by petsfed on Apr 17, 2007, 5:09 PM)
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jt512
Apr 17, 2007, 5:24 PM
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petsfed wrote: Spirits get knocked out of whack easier than positrons. Means that older positrons will clip better than older spirits. Right out of the box, they're pretty much identical.
I have never had a Spirit biner get "knocked out of whack," and I've owned over 100 of them.
Jay
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tradklime
Apr 17, 2007, 7:51 PM
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taino wrote: ...but the dual-track gate style of the old Positrons (now called Dynotrons) ...
The old positrons were just positrons with the dual track gate. The Dynotron is a different biner, dual track solid gate with the body of a livewire. Not that its important.
My favorites are the positron/ hotwire combo. I really like the BD dogbones. I like the integrated rubber biner keeper than won't wear as quickly as the petzl system. However, the petzl dogbone itself is more durable.
The BD and petzl stuff all really nice. Definitely consider a wire gate for the rope end though.
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petsfed
Apr 18, 2007, 1:35 AM
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Then I guess I've just encountered the bad apples.
As to the dynotron, its a crap carabiner. You'll be much happier with the spirits or the positrons.
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stymingersfink
Apr 20, 2007, 1:13 AM
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jt512 wrote: petsfed wrote: Spirits get knocked out of whack easier than positrons. Means that older positrons will clip better than older spirits. Right out of the box, they're pretty much identical. I have never had a Spirit biner get "knocked out of whack," and I've owned over 100 of them. Jay
"owning" them does not equal "use"
aren't you a boulderer?
wait, nevermind. that's Curt I was thinking of.
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dwise
Apr 20, 2007, 1:48 AM
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jt512 wrote: petsfed wrote: Spirits get knocked out of whack easier than positrons. Means that older positrons will clip better than older spirits. Right out of the box, they're pretty much identical. I have never had a Spirit biner get "knocked out of whack," and I've owned over 100 of them. Jay
Let me preface this by saying that the climber was back clipped, but a few weeks ago I saw something I've never seen in 13 years and many falls on Petzl draws. A climber took a lead fall on a Petzl spirit draw (short one). The nylon draw and bottom biner came off of the top biner as his weight hit the draw, resulting in a groundfall--the top biner still clipped to the hanger upside down. Thankfully, he was only 15 feet up and was unhurt.
We all spent some time analyzing what happened and the best I can come up with is that the back-clipped rope lifted the draw and rotated the top biner upside down on the bolt hanger (nylon in between hanger and gate if that makes sense). When the climber fell, the draw slid down the gate side and the weight opened the gate and the nylon slid off. I'm fairly certain this was due to the stiffness of the draw (and, of course, the fact that he was back clipped).
Moral of the story: my vote is for a less stiff draw that keeps the biner oriented on the hanger properly. A stiffer one will rotate the biner.
The good thing is that that new leader is now uber conscious about back clipping.
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cosmin
Apr 20, 2007, 2:31 AM
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jt512 wrote: Plus, carrying shiny, new, matching Positron draws marks you as a n00b. Pros carry Petzls, Jay
n00bs carry Petzl - and I got my Positrons from my sponsor!
I, for one prefer the 'dogbones' to be flexible - less chance for the bolt biner to twist and get cross-loaded.
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moss1956
Aug 14, 2007, 11:26 PM
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This is unclear to me, I wish an expert would elaborate. My experience with the new skinny BD dynex dogbones is that they are so floppy that the biner tends to get twisted so that it looks like it is back clipped. Maybe this isn't a problem, because its so floppy the rope can't then get unclipped, but maybe it is a problem. Has anybody tested this?
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