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dr_feelgood
Apr 23, 2007, 10:47 PM
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So i took a static fall on a full length daisy a few weeks back, and it was kinda painful in the whiplash department. And i heard about putting a screamer on my daisies, and decided to try it out... here are the options and my comments....
Option one... what seems to be the safest. Daisy girth hitched to harness, to oval biner to screamer to aider. My concerns are the lack of the last few inches of daisy space that is taken up by the screamer and biners...
Option two... I think i'm leaning towards this one. If i generate enough force to blow the girth hitch on the screamer, i need to switch to light beer. The main concerns seem to be friction on the webbing to webbing contacts, but provided i inspect it frequently(and i don't do that much aid), i think this is ok....
Option 3. Not a huge fan of this guy, but it is still in consideration. Kind of like the fat chick with a lazy eye at the bar... It goes daisy girth hitched to harness and then clipped to aider, with the screamer clipped in the middle... allows for the most use of the last few daisy pockets, but drastically reduces length on the daisy. Full deployment might also not be reached...
and option 4... Not pictured... Auto-locking biner thru swami and leg loop to screamer to biner/girth hitched to daisy to aider...
Help an aid noob out.
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energynrhythm
Apr 23, 2007, 11:36 PM
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First off you should try to avoid extensions when ever possible....and If your using your daisychain as a personel anchor...you shouldnt....and god forbid you expect one of the loops on your daisy to catch a fall...they wont....I know a lot of people still use them as personel anchors but its been proven that they are dangerous and not designed for that....my advice is get a PAS from Metolius....
peace
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dr_feelgood
Apr 23, 2007, 11:43 PM
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energynrhythm wrote: First off you should try to avoid extensions when ever possible....and If your using your daisychain as a personel anchor...you shouldnt....and god forbid you expect one of the loops on your daisy to catch a fall...they wont....I know a lot of people still use them as personel anchors but its been proven that they are dangerous and not designed for that....my advice is get a PAS from Metolius.... peace
Ok... No where in my post did i mention using them to anchor with. I'm using them to allow me to weigh my pieces with something other than just my legs, and keep me from dropping my aiders... Welcome to the aid forum.
But thanks for the safety tip.
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ja1484
Apr 23, 2007, 11:45 PM
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Oh for the love of...
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majid_sabet
Apr 24, 2007, 12:15 AM
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lambone
Apr 24, 2007, 12:17 AM
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Feelgood,
I have used method #2. It worked ok. You need to re configure your fifi rig for optimal top stepping.
I wouldn't like the extra biner in Method #1. Added clusterfuck potentail and weight of rig.
I would advise against your method #3 as a daisy fall might blow the bar tacks on the daisy loops before the screamer deploys. They aren't meant to take a fall.
Also consider the Yates adjustable daisies with built in screamers.
And try not to take daisy falls. That would be considered a "Fuck Up" in the "Don't Fuck Up" aid climbing rating system.
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thabadcharacter
Apr 24, 2007, 12:20 AM
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You should learn proper aid skills to AVOID AT ALL COSTS a static fall onto a daisy. Unless you go out and buy a screamer-specific daisy (yates for instance), DON'T attempt to introduce one.
1. Because you want to avoid any extra extensions that prevent you from getting as close as possible to the piece you are clipped into.
2. Because it really isn't necessary and you'll end up with a cluster-f*ck in front of you.
Do what you will, take my advice with a grain of salt if you need to, but seriously just take the time to dial in your skillset so you dont have to even worry about shockloading your daisys. Good luck and be safe.
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dr_feelgood
Apr 24, 2007, 12:22 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: Commando Try not to be the next study case [snip pictures]
And stripping the daisy is the reason option #3 is a terrible idea.
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chitlinsconcarne
Apr 24, 2007, 1:39 AM
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all these hulpful folks alookin and no ones gonna explain to this nice fellow what he's doing wrong so that he can quit hanginging all dese xmas ornaments off'n his daisy chains?
jeez, wahrs the luv?
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ja1484
Apr 24, 2007, 2:17 AM
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chitlinsconcarne wrote: all these hulpful folks alookin and no ones gonna explain to this nice fellow what he's doing wrong so that he can quit hanginging all dese xmas ornaments off'n his daisy chains? jeez, wahrs the luv?
ja1484 wrote: Oh for the love of... |
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climb_eng
Apr 24, 2007, 4:46 AM
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You just can't wait to get back states-side can you??
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dr_feelgood
Apr 24, 2007, 10:55 AM
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climb_eng wrote: You just can't wait to get back states-side can you??
Me? Hell i've been back for 5 months....
Now i just can't wait to get the fuck out...
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brent_e
Apr 24, 2007, 3:11 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: climb_eng wrote: You just can't wait to get back states-side can you?? Me? Hell i've been back for 5 months.... Now i just can't wait to get the fuck out...
COME TO CANADA!!!! we have nasty stone and we don't like PBR!!!!
well...my dad does...but that doesn't count.
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dr_feelgood
Apr 24, 2007, 10:55 PM
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brent_e wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: climb_eng wrote: You just can't wait to get back states-side can you?? Me? Hell i've been back for 5 months.... Now i just can't wait to get the fuck out... COME TO CANADA!!!! we have nasty stone and we don't like PBR!!!! well...my dad does...but that doesn't count.
Considering it.... but not onterrible...
and i thought this would be sooo much better flamewise... sorry.
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rocknice2
Apr 24, 2007, 11:21 PM
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86 all that screammer bullshit. It will prove nothing but trouble. Learn how to aid properly.
Any time one is in a position to fall onto a static anything is a bad time indeed.
When bounce testing your next piece clip in short onto your last. If your top stepping unclip your daisy from the last piece and clip in the rope or test from below.
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chitlinsconcarne
Apr 25, 2007, 2:49 AM
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ahh, now the lurv is pourin in
i tried using my suspenders for aiders but kept they kept getting stuck in the crack
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lambone
Apr 25, 2007, 3:57 AM
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Daisy falls can happen to anyone, it's not allways about how experienced you are or how honed your skills are. Yes you can reduce the risks, but the some risk is allways there, as it goes with rock climbing.
Case in point:
Pass the Piton Pete...daisy fell onto his Metolius adjustable daisy and went to the deck on Wyoming Sheep Ranch. Busted up his ankle good.
Now wether you like the guy or not, think he is a good aid climber or not. The fact remains that he has soloed more El Cap routes then anyone who ever posts here, and has led more aid pitches then most anyone here ever will. And that says something.
Stack the odds in your favor, use screamers. However an adjustable daisy can limit the risk of a daisy fall. The thing to do is as soon as you commit to that top peice get your rope in and your lower daisy out of the last one pronto.
(This post was edited by lambone on Apr 25, 2007, 4:02 AM)
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chitlinsconcarne
Apr 25, 2007, 4:40 AM
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so then i tried putting screamers on my suspenders but Oy Vey! the chafing, it had to be seen to be believed
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pmyche
Apr 25, 2007, 6:01 AM
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stymingersfink
Apr 26, 2007, 12:43 AM
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^^that's right on good advice from pmyche^^
in any other business it would be known as a "cost of doing business", one which we all try our damdest to avoid, however the only true way to avoid might be to quit climbing and take up knitting.
Keep the CF'age to a minimum, and count your experience as a learning one. Hopefully one which didn't cost you too much, but a learning one none the less.
As mentioned above, daisy falls are among the FU in DFU. Try to avoid exposing yourself to such situations, and avoid routes with such a designation till you feel confident in your ability to monitor/mitigate your exposure to such situations.
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chitlinsconcarne
Apr 26, 2007, 4:29 AM
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with all the sticky chafing i decided that there warnt enough slack in my suspenders so i hollered down to my partner to tie off the rope and go get a big rubber band
but he thought i said to quit smoking all my dope and go pound sand
so there was some misapprehension there for a moment
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karlbaba
Apr 26, 2007, 5:42 AM
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dr_feelgood wrote: So i took a static fall on a full length daisy a few weeks back, and it was kinda painful in the whiplash department. And i heard about putting a screamer on my daisies, and decided to try it out... here are the options and my comments.... [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Dr_feelgood/P4230075.jpg[/IMG] Option one... what seems to be the safest. Daisy girth hitched to harness, to oval biner to screamer to aider. My concerns are the lack of the last few inches of daisy space that is taken up by the screamer and biners... [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Dr_feelgood/P4230073.jpg[/IMG] Option two... I think i'm leaning towards this one. If i generate enough force to blow the girth hitch on the screamer, i need to switch to light beer. The main concerns seem to be friction on the webbing to webbing contacts, but provided i inspect it frequently(and i don't do that much aid), i think this is ok.... [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Dr_feelgood/P4230077.jpg[/IMG] Option 3. Not a huge fan of this guy, but it is still in consideration. Kind of like the fat chick with a lazy eye at the bar... It goes daisy girth hitched to harness and then clipped to aider, with the screamer clipped in the middle... allows for the most use of the last few daisy pockets, but drastically reduces length on the daisy. Full deployment might also not be reached... and option 4... Not pictured... Auto-locking biner thru swami and leg loop to screamer to biner/girth hitched to daisy to aider... Help an aid noob out.
Why was it full length daisy fall? Once you are on the next piece, maybe the next step is to unclip the previous piece from the daisy before moving up into the full length zone.
Actually, I'd be surprised if the screamer even deployed in the average daisy fall. You'd be surprised how much the harness and other stuff in the system absorbs. It'd would be worth testing. I took a shorter daisy fall on a screamer-daisy once and it didn't rip.
Girth-hitching shouldn't be a problem since the screamer will deploy before the weakness is an issue. Just check for wear once in awhile
peace
Karl
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dr_feelgood
Apr 26, 2007, 1:08 PM
Post #23 of 29
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So i've had a few requests for what happened. Remembering that i am an aid noob, and none of the aid lines at enchanted rock are very long, they all are pretty gnarly as far as fall potential goes...
I was doing a .12a fingertips crack solo. My anchor at the base was a big ass oak tree tied with webbing, and a screamer on the end of the rope, with my first placement an anti-zipper, i think #3 TCU on the top and #2 bd nut on the bottom. I was about 4 placements up, weighing a BD micro-stopper, most likely a #4. The piece directly below me was a blue TCU, and I had left my Aider and daisy clipped to that. While i was stepping up, i lengthened my daisy to it's full length the Blue TCU, and i was feeding rope through my clove hitch to clip the next piece, a bomber nut, when the piece i was on sheared through the coarse granite and i fell onto the blue tcu. I ended up cracking the trigger bar on the tcu and thinking that it was a rather painful harness fall.
Luckily i hadn't unclipped the lower daisy or i very well may have decked...
Feel free to flame away or call me a n00b, I view it as a learning experience.
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lambone
Apr 26, 2007, 5:05 PM
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Another thing is:
DON'T USE SPECTRA DAISIES!
Spectra is a high tensile strength/ low stretch fabric. Although a standard nylon sling or daisy doesn't have much stretch, it certainly stretches more then a spectra one.
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pmyche
Apr 27, 2007, 3:41 AM
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