n00bs aren't killing my climbing. If anything, it's getting healthier.

First off, I'd say that our sport does a good job of killing n00bs so it might be square.

I'm a 20 something year old male. I started in the gym and thought pullups, campusing, and dynos were cool when I started. I attended the PBC to watch the celebrities climb and bouldered in Bishop because I didn't know how to lead.

Over the last 8 years since I started climbing, I've grown and learned about what our sport means. I've encirled myself with like minded people. We pick up trash when we see it, we rappel instead of lower to save the rock and rappel rings, we stay on trails and even help build them, we trad climb in the mountains, we watch sunsets and view scenery, and at the same time we try to push our limits and find out what we're made of.

Being a true part of the climbing community means helping ensure that the resource will always be there, interacting with the environment positively, and loving all forms of climbing. It means congratulating success instead of envying it, and the aesthetic line means more than the number (although they often go hand in hand). Snake Dike is still one of my favorite climbs ever!

Those who are "killing our sport" aren't the n00bs, but the selfish ones. The ones trying to get the most out of their environment without giving anything back. It's easy to cut switchbacks to save time, or crap at the base and not pack it out. It's possible to climb an arch and self publicize while hurting future access for every climber that follows. Egos balloon and bolt wars ensue that result in permenant scars that all will see. Trash gets left on big walls (definitely not n00b territory there). There were the people hammering The Green Arch last month at Tahquitz doing permenant damage to a spectacular free climb so that they could get some "aid practice." It's the selfish that ruin the sport, not the n00bs. Sometimes the selfish and the n00b go hand in hand, but often it is out of ignorance. The finger should be pointed at those experienced, yet still selfish, climbers who work to ruin it for all. The Dean Potters, the Art Messiers, the excessive hammerers and so on, because not only do they know better, they decide to act the way they do with that knowledge.

Josh

Ya gotta love Dingus though - he's a real man among trolls...

Some say its true.... Tragedy of the Commons and all that horseshit. Well what say you Commoners? Are you killing our sport? Once it was only the dirtbags and us elite who climbed, now they climb on orange juice commercials. Does ths represent the Death of Climbing? Death by Noob?

DMT

If an easy 85% of climbers being 100% bolt dependent, rampant commercialization, increased access problems, trampled resources, grid bolting, and a complete k-fed, supermarket integration into suburban pop culture is your idea of 'healthier', then my guess is you are either selling climbing in some way or another or you are a comfortable member of the horde. To be honest, I started climbing to avoid hanging out around just the sort of risk-averse suburbanites who have now thoroughly innundated it.

Commercialized "image" opposed to the more realistic hard core, intimate circle "image" of climbing.

"Image" can come dangerously close to "Ego".

If I let my ego get in the way then I would have quit climbing a long time ago since I am not climbing 5.12's yet considering how long I have been climbing.

Noobs are merely a byproduct of capitolism and marketing. The need of capitolism is to create change so new ways can be found to sell products. The white bread Cleaver type family marketing has been on going since TV's early days, so marketers are looking for new ideas. They got ahold of 'exreme' sports and are using this concept as their new marketing tool. Climbing isn't the only Noob filled sport. You see white 20 somethings in their Toyotas with the full rack; skis, bikes, kayak, rock gear inside,etc. They have taken to the newer marketing and of course are new to these various activities. Noobery is only a narual by-product of capitolism, I mean what are these people going to do after buying all this equipment, just look at it?

zeke, you are a man of Letters?

Really? I kinda thought this one was sub-par...No offense to Dingus, but there just wasn't that certain je-ne-sais-quois that a truly good troll has.

I disagree. Although not particularly original, it's a strong troll.

First, he used his older, respected username with 7,000+ posts to give the thread legitimacy. Then, he broached an inflammatory topic in a non-threatening manner without leveling any direct accusations. This approach is sophisticated – it draws out passionate and indignant responses without resorting to the effective but simplistic aggro in-your-face opening post. Last (and this is what did it for me), he used an erudite reference and “horseshit” in the same sentence. That adds the necessary “je ne sais quoi,” as far as I’m concerned.

But we all have our own preferences for troll styling.

Why women climb was good, the initial post was humorous, but it was quite obvious a troll. Dingus actually has a little more truth behind his troll, but its almost not fair to troll the n00bs, like shooting fish in a barrel.

Great post, although I doubt it will be much noticed or appreciated in this thread.

Curt

I saw that one, I really thing some ass is going to send Jay a dollar. Wouldn't surprise me one bit....