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macherry
May 3, 2007, 6:45 PM
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i heard dean potter was killing our sport
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GeneralBenson
May 3, 2007, 8:12 PM
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I think the day that we as climbers start disregarding the new people, is the day that climbing will suck. I myslef and just barely eclipsing noob status, but I've long since admired climbing from a far. My favorite thing about climbing is the sense of community. It's really hard to find an A-hole climber. As a noob, I was thrilled at the amount of help I got from 'elite' climbers. After being into other things like working out and drag racing, where noobs are treated like crap, It was a welcome change. So we've got this great community, and yeah it's being infiltrated. Apparently orange juice helps you climb, Puma makes 'climbing style' street shoes, and I see more and more people wearing Prana, and I wonder if they really climb. So how do we respond to this? We could do what every other hobby has done when faced with the threat of trendiness, which is to establish a caste system in which noobs cannot rise to another level, because they will get no help. Or, we can try and make the best of it. We could help them become better climbers. Like someone said, it's not the noobs, but the selfish. If we show people how to climb right, and that being a climber is more than just knowing how to get up a rock, then the next generation will be nothing to fear. Personally, I'm always looking for more climbing partners.
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justroberto
May 3, 2007, 8:23 PM
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gobennyjo
May 3, 2007, 8:27 PM
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I dont think it is that noobs are killing the sport it is just the huge influx of noobs is amazing, I am not really comlaining though. My thought is if all the gym rats become good and crowd the rocks, I doupt it though. Some people complain about all the noobs at there favorite spot but you should just do harder rocks and then you don't have to worry about them
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skinnyclimber
May 3, 2007, 8:33 PM
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healyje wrote: ...trolls...
"What you angry for and actin all tense? Cuz if you innocent be cool, only the guilty's catchin offence"
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GeneralBenson
May 3, 2007, 9:04 PM
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Well, I've yet to find one.
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suzie_cuzie
May 3, 2007, 9:43 PM
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justroberto wrote: GeneralBenson wrote: It's really hard to find an A-hole climber. Maybe if you're an ostrich and something scary is running by...
You know, they did a study over a period of decades involving tens of thousands of ostriches, and they concluded that no ostrich had ever buried his head in the sand or even attempted to. Fun fact for you.
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shockabuku
May 3, 2007, 10:32 PM
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suzie_cuzie wrote: justroberto wrote: GeneralBenson wrote: It's really hard to find an A-hole climber. Maybe if you're an ostrich and something scary is running by... You know, they did a study over a period of decades involving tens of thousands of ostriches, and they concluded that no ostrich had ever buried his head in the sand or even attempted to. Fun fact for you.
They who? Do you have a reference? How dare you just up and challenge established wisdom like that? Can't you see that justroberto has 50 posts and... oh, never mind. He must be a know nothing n00b.
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hiyapokey
May 3, 2007, 11:22 PM
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Ostriches appear to bury their heads in the sand because they are digging looking for water. Noobs are not killing the sport. We are all safely online talking about how Noobs are killing the sport.
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ctucker
May 3, 2007, 11:32 PM
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The goal of any noob should be to kill your sport and make it their own. Our sport my ass. Every noob is just the next generation of climbers to make the previous one nervous.
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suzie_cuzie
May 4, 2007, 4:24 AM
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the_leech wrote: suzie_cuzie wrote: healyje wrote: Ya gotta love Dingus though - he's a real man among trolls... Really? I kinda thought this one was sub-par...No offense to Dingus, but there just wasn't that certain je-ne-sais-quois that a truly good troll has. I disagree. Although not particularly original, it's a strong troll. First, he used his older, respected username with 7,000+ posts to give the thread legitimacy. Then, he broached an inflammatory topic in a non-threatening manner without leveling any direct accusations. This approach is sophisticated – it draws out passionate and indignant responses without resorting to the effective but simplistic aggro in-your-face opening post. Last (and this is what did it for me), he used an erudite reference and “horseshit” in the same sentence. That adds the necessary “je ne sais quoi,” as far as I’m concerned. But we all have our own preferences for troll styling.
Preferences, maybe. But I think it's in irrefutable fact that a good troll requires not only volume of responses, but also sincerity and some rabid flaming.
Dingus has the first and second, but no one has been really enraged by his seemingly benign post yet. And that is an absolute requirement for a truly great troll.
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shanz
May 4, 2007, 5:03 AM
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heh spare me the rethoric --- we are just but mere pawns in the originators of the game we have come to love - let go of your own lack of originality and search for some testicular fortitude -- place a piece and quit being a pussy all of your life
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the_leech
May 4, 2007, 5:07 AM
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suzie_cuzie wrote: the_leech wrote: ...But we all have our own preferences for troll styling. Preferences, maybe. But I think it's in irrefutable fact that a good troll requires not only volume of responses, but also sincerity and some rabid flaming. Dingus has the first and second, but no one has been really enraged by his seemingly benign post yet. And that is an absolute requirement for a truly great troll.
For me, it’s all about the hook. It doesn’t matter if the replies are sincere, ignorant, friendly, self-righteous, agitated, or a complete flame-fest. Just knowing that they bit the hook is what makes me happy. But I’ll admit, the indignant and the angry posters are generally the most fun to play with.
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rockclimbchar
May 4, 2007, 2:51 PM
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dingus wrote: rockclimbchar wrote: Commercialized "image" opposed to the more realistic hard core, intimate circle "image" of climbing. The 'core' climber IS the image they sell. In reply to: "Image" can come dangerously close to "Ego". Ah there's that dreaded word ego. But for ego El Cap would never have been climbed. In reply to: If I let my ego get in the way then I would have quit climbing a long time ago since I am not climbing 5.12's yet considering how long I have been climbing. Who said anything about an ego getting in the way? Ego is the fuel of climbing's competitive fire.
There are more than one definitions for "Ego". I believe the one you are referring to when using the word "ego" is: "the element of being that consciously and continuously enables an individual to think, feel, and act." The definition I am referring to when using the word "ego" is: "conceit" - "an exaggerated opinion of one's ability, importance, etc." These definitions are from The World Book Encyclopedia. These two differences in the use of the word "ego" could definitely cause a misinterpretation of my posting. If you are using the first definition I quoted, I agree. However, it isn't the definition I was trying to portray. Also, there is a lot more to my posting/ reply than just about egos.
(This post was edited by rockclimbchar on May 4, 2007, 2:56 PM)
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dingus
May 4, 2007, 3:00 PM
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OK char I'll go with yours. I still maintain that ego is the core of great climbing accomplishments. When Messner decided to solo Everest I think his ego was in overdrive. But look at the result!
DMT
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skinnyclimber
May 4, 2007, 3:04 PM
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dingus wrote: OK char I'll go with yours. I still maintain that ego is the core of great climbing accomplishments. When Messner decided to solo Everest I think his ego was in overdrive. But look at the result! DMT
I don't think that being driven by your ego to do great things is necessarily bad. I do think that being driven by your ego to be an asshole wanker jerk is bad, but hey, that's just my opinion. And maybe it's because my ego hasn't yet driven me to do anything "great" about which I need to spray.
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rhythm164
May 4, 2007, 3:16 PM
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i love that the Tragedy of the Commons was just referenced on this website
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dingus
May 4, 2007, 3:33 PM
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skinnyclimber wrote: dingus wrote: OK char I'll go with yours. I still maintain that ego is the core of great climbing accomplishments. When Messner decided to solo Everest I think his ego was in overdrive. But look at the result! DMT I don't think that being driven by your ego to do great things is necessarily bad.
Yes that's my whole point. We have this negative connotation of ego. Yes our egos can drive us to do stupid things to gratify our self-perceived images. They can also drive us to do great things, like bold climbs no one before had the necessary.... ego... to tackle.
DMT
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dingus
May 4, 2007, 3:36 PM
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rhythm164 wrote: i love that the Tragedy of the Commons was just referenced on this website
I think if more noobs knew what it meant I would have counted a lot more coup.
DMT
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tanner
May 4, 2007, 4:02 PM
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I'm 24 so I would have started climbing in its "popular" era
I learned the ropes in squamish for a much older climber. I learned all the ethics as I set up my first TR.
I think thats important!!!! Take noobs under you wing at the crag. Explane why that crack has no bolts. Why the first assentists style is important and why chipping is bad.
Mybe rather than bitching about new climbers. Show them what its all about. Make them 'desiples'
or Keep bitching
And some day you will read from you rocking chair that some one rapbolted the Nose as a sport route. And that the goverment banned Trad climbing because of its risks with full suport of the climbing community.
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mturner
May 4, 2007, 4:33 PM
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GeneralBenson wrote: It's really hard to find an A-hole climber.
You're new to this site huh?
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jdouble
May 4, 2007, 4:49 PM
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This thread is killing our sport.
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coach_kyle
May 4, 2007, 5:21 PM
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Is it in some way unethical to have a full time job and still enjoy participating in a sport? Is it an insult to people who don't have full time jobs and enjoy the same sport?
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majid_sabet
May 4, 2007, 5:27 PM
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n00bs have no respect for older climbers once they learn a few knots (They still can't tie butterfly).
Let's ship all these n00bs to Thailand permanently. Ship their magazine editor as well .
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codhands
May 4, 2007, 5:36 PM
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When nOObs are outlawed, only outlaws will be nOObs. Think about it.....
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