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the_leech


May 4, 2007, 12:23 PM
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Re: [rhythm164] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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rhythm164 wrote:
i love that the Tragedy of the Commons was just referenced on this website

It works on so many levels...


Partner oldsalt


May 4, 2007, 1:56 PM
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Re: The Tragedy of the Commons...

As literate as I might be, this was a new reference to me. Now that I have reviewed it, I am trying to reconcile the concept to climbing.

Aside from those Commons that apply to us all, such as clean air and water, what are the climbing-specific Commons?

I propose that these include at least Access, Natural State, and Overcrowding.

Access should be obvious, evidenced by the benefits of supporting the Access Fund. While probably not obvious to a Noob, they will quickly discover that access issues are important and may be complicated.

Climbers destroying vegetation, damaging fences, or failing to Leave No Trace, leads to the loss of Access to our particular Commons of crags.

Responsible climbers enjoy and appreciate being in the Natural State. Other threads have discussed view pollution caused by development of green lands within the view of a crag. I can deal with that.

Damage to the Natural State can be best understood by example. You arrive at the parking lot of Sandrock, with a magnificent view of a large lake and a small town below the cliff line. Turning to the nearby boulders, you find that Joyce loves Bob and that the local thrill must involve how many beer bottles can be broken in one night.

Vandalism creates a major problem for climbers, even when it is done by the Sigma Nu fraternity letting off some steam at Mt. Yonah. If these Snakes can climb anything higher than a bar stool, I would be amazed. We climb at Mt. Yonah under the good auspices of the US Army Rangers. A closure there would impact all of us.

I won't get into bolting here, because I still do more sport than gear climbing and I appreciate having bolts out there.

Overcrowding is probably a fact of life for most of us. Too many climbers cuts down the number of routes that can be done in a day. If a certain percentage of us are idiots, ten times the number of climbers means that at least 10 times that number of idiots are out there.

We prefer to avoid crowds for aesthic reasons, but crowds also lead to problems of Access and Natural State. Hence the interest in a thread about Noobs. An uneducated Noob may damage our efforts to gain or maintain Access by damaging the Natural State. Fewer Noobs means a reduced tendency toward Overcrowding. Although we were all once Noobs, now that we are not we must look upon Them with suspicion, fear, and loathing.

The best way to deal with Noobs, IMHO, is to teach them how to belay safely, to Leave No Trace, to respect the rights of others, especially property owners, etc., etc. Embrace them for their safety and our continued freedom to climb.

Finally, I consider getting spanked by the denizens of RC.com to be part of a Noob's education.


kenyakiki


May 4, 2007, 2:41 PM
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Re: [dingus] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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As someone who has only climbed for a season I would have to say that I do not feel like I am killing your sport!!! Since when did climbing become territorial? Is this a Hawaiian surfing forum?

For heaven sakes I have skied for 23 years and yeah it sucks when some gaper hikes out where he has no business being, but they are not killing skiing. If anything the new people are keeping the sport alive. Embrace it! make money off it! laugh at it. have fun with it! Unless you are some sort of climbing God who came out of the womb with a carabiner in one hand and a harness already on...You were new to climbing once too! Try remembering what it was like!
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bent_gate


May 4, 2007, 3:06 PM
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Re: [the_leech] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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the_leech wrote:
suzie_cuzie wrote:
the_leech wrote:
...But we all have our own preferences for troll styling.

Preferences, maybe. But I think it's in irrefutable fact that a good troll requires not only volume of responses, but also sincerity and some rabid flaming.

Dingus has the first and second, but no one has been really enraged by his seemingly benign post yet. And that is an absolute requirement for a truly great troll.

For me, itís all about the hook. It doesnít matter if the replies are sincere, ignorant, friendly, self-righteous, agitated, or a complete flame-fest. Just knowing that they bit the hook is what makes me happy. But Iíll admit, the indignant and the angry posters are generally the most fun to play with.

Allow me to summarize to date: Multiple lines. Baited but barbless hooks (for more expeditious catch and release). Just too tasty to pass up!



Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!


axelvanettinger


May 4, 2007, 3:28 PM
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Somewhere i read about n00bs who can't climb multi pitch. now I'm a n00b myself and live in Europe the low- flat- holland. It says enough doesn't it. The only way i can climb is go to a gym or go to belgium. Now in belgium most routes are single pitch. so i can't learn multi pitch. I would like to learn it badly. the only problem is there is no climber prepaired to learn it to me because they are too busy with their own stuff. And they say i need to do a course. Now i don't have the money to do such a course, aprox. Ä300 ( $ 400), and it takes a whole weekend. while a hardend climber can learn me faster and isn't time bound. So all climbers who live in a area where you see climbers, try to help them if they wanna learn something. That way the people who doesn't like it will go away faster, and the people who are very intrested in it will make less mistakes, and that way there will be less n00bs so this nonsense threads don't have to pop out of the keyboard anymore. U all nag about things that are out of reach for me. So Shut the F Up, about irritating noobs and stuffLaugh


bent_gate


May 4, 2007, 3:41 PM
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Re: [axelvanettinger] Re:Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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axelvanettinger wrote:
...Now i don't have the money to do such a course, aprox. Ä300 ( $ 400), and it takes a whole weekend. while a hardend climber can learn me faster and isn't time bound...

Well be careful of what you ask for... Dingus will learn you right quick!Shocked


GeneralBenson


May 4, 2007, 3:59 PM
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Re: [mturner] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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Indeed I am new to this site, but hardly new to the world of forum trolls. Of course it's easy to find a-hole climbers online. Everyone is an a-hole online. It's the ultimate stage for people who lack the nuts in the real world; digital balls are just as mighty. The internet is full of reasonably young know it alls (myself included). The chances are that most of the people on this board are too young to call this 'our' sport. *puts on flame suit* But in the real world, from my experience, climbers are really cool, down to earth, people; I hope that doesn't change.


kenyakiki


May 4, 2007, 5:07 PM
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Re: [PuShIt] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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PuShIt wrote:
dingus wrote:
WildMountainHighsUnite wrote:
EGO IS KILLING OUR SPORT!! ---beware of yourself.

Ego is the BASIS of our sport mate!

DMT

Obviously it is for you.
I can't relate---my BASIS is the rock and ice!

The problem with this world is that so many people think they are better than others. Thats crap! You may be better at somethings but get of your high horse and take a look in the mirror... elite people with Ego are killing this sport


soillclimber


May 4, 2007, 5:57 PM
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Re: [dingus] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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Just trying to link a photo.


oh shit that looks like a failed braze!!!
Check injuries and accidents...souders groundfall post


Power_Tie


May 4, 2007, 11:49 PM
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Re: [soillclimber] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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Many of these so called climbers have very poor attitudes. I'll wager this dingus character is one of those skinny gym punks that I commonly see at the rock climbing gym.


suzie_cuzie


May 5, 2007, 12:33 AM
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Power_Tie wrote:
Many of these so called climbers have very poor attitudes. I'll wager this dingus character is one of those skinny gym punks that I commonly see at the rock climbing gym.

Yeah. He's the one who only belays girls with nice asses.


axelvanettinger


May 5, 2007, 6:33 AM
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Re: [bent_gate] Re:Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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bent_gate wrote:
axelvanettinger wrote:
...Now i don't have the money to do such a course, aprox. Ä300 ( $ 400), and it takes a whole weekend. while a hardend climber can learn me faster and isn't time bound...

Well be careful of what you ask for... Dingus will learn you right quick!Shocked

Well let him come to europe then, lots of nice asses here!! And then he can learn me stuff... I'll buy him a beer if he teaches me all!Wink


rockclimbchar


May 5, 2007, 5:39 PM
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Re: [tanner] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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tanner wrote:
Take noobs under you wing at the crag. Explane why that crack has no bolts. Why the first assentists style is important and why chipping is bad.

Mybe rather than bitching about new climbers. Show them what its all about. Make them 'desiples'

or Keep bitching
And some day you will read from you rocking chair that some one rapbolted the Nose as a sport route. And that the goverment banned Trad climbing because of its risks with full suport of the climbing community.

That is a more accurate description of some of what my original posting was trying to say. So for everyone hung up on the word "ego" (which I provided the different definitions for); get over it! Read my original posting, get past the word "ego" and get the real message/ point.

And it seems like "dingus" is having way too much fun with this thread. Do you ever climb or just play on the computer? Yes, I have posted about 3 times on this thread but "dingus", you are going nuts with this. Give it a rest everyone, go out and climb. The weather is great and just get back to the core of what climbing and the climbing community is all about. This is just turning into a major bullshitting thread. Someone said "this thread is killing our sport". Right on with that one!


the_leech


May 5, 2007, 5:58 PM
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rockclimbchar wrote:
That is a more accurate description of some of what my original posting was trying to say. So for everyone hung up on the word "ego" (which I provided the different definitions for); get over it! Read my original posting, get past the word "ego" and get the real message/ point.

And it seems like "dingus" is having way too much fun with this thread. Do you ever climb or just play on the computer? Yes, I have posted about 3 times on this thread but "dingus", you are going nuts with this. Give it a rest everyone, go out and climb. The weather is great and just get back to the core of what climbing and the climbing community is all about. This is just turning into a major bullshitting thread. Someone said "this thread is killing our sport". Right on with that one!

You are a very annoying person. Please go away.

That is all I have to say.


rockclimbchar


May 5, 2007, 6:34 PM
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Re: [the_leech] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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the_leech wrote:
rockclimbchar wrote:
That is a more accurate description of some of what my original posting was trying to say. So for everyone hung up on the word "ego" (which I provided the different definitions for); get over it! Read my original posting, get past the word "ego" and get the real message/ point.

And it seems like "dingus" is having way too much fun with this thread. Do you ever climb or just play on the computer? Yes, I have posted about 3 times on this thread but "dingus", you are going nuts with this. Give it a rest everyone, go out and climb. The weather is great and just get back to the core of what climbing and the climbing community is all about. This is just turning into a major bullshitting thread. Someone said "this thread is killing our sport". Right on with that one!

You are a very annoying person. Please go away.

That is all I have to say.

You seemed to be having fun with everyone's postings. A sort of entertainment for you as indicated in your past postings. Doesn't matter, you and this thread are annoying me just as much as I seem to be annoying you. I did not plan to continue with this thread but had to respond to this last one because of your sudden change in mood regarding this "entertaining thread". At first this thread brought about some valid issues. Now it is just a "gossip" and "bitching" column. And I have actually successfully annoyed you. That wasn't too difficult but I'll let you off the hook. I think I am getting "endless thread headache syndrome". Besides I need to get some sleep so I can be ready to go out climbing tomorrow and be on the lookout for all those threatening Noobs.

I'm done and quite relieved (of course to your satisfaction and mine as well, your welcome by the way).

That is all I have to say.Wink


dingus


May 6, 2007, 5:50 AM
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rockclimbchar wrote:
And it seems like "dingus" is having way too much fun with this thread. Do you ever climb or just play on the computer? Yes, I have posted about 3 times on this thread but "dingus", you are going nuts with this.

You have a huge ego my friend. Get help.

DMT


bobruef


May 6, 2007, 9:00 AM
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rockclimbchar wrote:
dingus wrote:
rockclimbchar wrote:
Commercialized "image" opposed to the more realistic hard core, intimate circle "image" of climbing.

The 'core' climber IS the image they sell.

In reply to:
"Image" can come dangerously close to "Ego".

Ah there's that dreaded word ego. But for ego El Cap would never have been climbed.

In reply to:
If I let my ego get in the way then I would have quit climbing a long time ago since I am not climbing 5.12's yet considering how long I have been climbing.

Who said anything about an ego getting in the way? Ego is the fuel of climbing's competitive fire.


There are more than one definitions for "Ego". I believe the one you are referring to when using the word "ego" is: "the element of being that consciously and continuously enables an individual to think, feel, and act." The definition I am referring to when using the word "ego" is: "conceit" - "an exaggerated opinion of one's ability, importance, etc." These definitions are from The World Book Encyclopedia. These two differences in the use of the word "ego" could definitely cause a misinterpretation of my posting. If you are using the first definition I quoted, I agree. However, it isn't the definition I was trying to portray. Also, there is a lot more to my posting/ reply than just about egos.

Interesting, I'd say more of my success in climbing, and in other endeavors come from your second definition. Dingus is right, Ego makes the world go round.


deane


May 6, 2007, 9:06 AM
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Re: [bobruef] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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The thing that strikes me as at least a little bit funny is the fact that such a question would appear on a MASSIVE internet community that encourages everyone to try climbing. Shouldn't you be complaining about "N00BS" in some secret backcountry elitist hideaway rather than the internet? Just a thought...


bobruef


May 6, 2007, 9:11 AM
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Re: [kenyakiki] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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kenyakiki wrote:
PuShIt wrote:
dingus wrote:
WildMountainHighsUnite wrote:
EGO IS KILLING OUR SPORT!! ---beware of yourself.

Ego is the BASIS of our sport mate!

DMT

Obviously it is for you.
I can't relate---my BASIS is the rock and ice!

The problem with this world is that so many people think they are better than others. Thats crap! You may be better at somethings but get of your high horse and take a look in the mirror... elite people with Ego are killing this sport

Yeah, but you people with no sense of self-worth or self esteem are borring. Cool

I refuse to get off my horse because it's higher than yours. I got the big horse because I liked it, I guess I wasn't really worried about you people w/ little ponies feeling bad.


(This post was edited by bobruef on May 6, 2007, 9:12 AM)


bobruef


May 6, 2007, 9:19 AM
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Re: [rockclimbchar] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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rockclimbchar wrote:
the_leech wrote:
You are a very annoying person. Please go away.

That is all I have to say.

You seemed to be having fun with everyone's postings. A sort of entertainment for you as indicated in your past postings. Doesn't matter, you and this thread are annoying me just as much as I seem to be annoying you. I did not plan to continue with this thread but had to respond to this last one because of your sudden change in mood regarding this "entertaining thread". At first this thread brought about some valid issues. Now it is just a "gossip" and "bitching" column. And I have actually successfully annoyed you. That wasn't too difficult but I'll let you off the hook. I think I am getting "endless thread headache syndrome". Besides I need to get some sleep so I can be ready to go out climbing tomorrow and be on the lookout for all those threatening Noobs.

I'm done and quite relieved (of course to your satisfaction and mine as well, your welcome by the way).

That is all I have to say.Wink


bobruef


May 6, 2007, 9:20 AM
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Re: [dingus] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
rockclimbchar wrote:
And it seems like "dingus" is having way too much fun with this thread. Do you ever climb or just play on the computer? Yes, I have posted about 3 times on this thread but "dingus", you are going nuts with this.

You have a huge ego my friend. Get help.

DMT

It sure was a borring Sunday at work until I stumbled on your thread, Dingus. Laugh


(This post was edited by bobruef on May 6, 2007, 3:15 PM)


stymingersfink


May 6, 2007, 2:22 PM
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rockclimbchar wrote:
... I'll let you off the hook...
i think your perception of who hooked who might be clouded by your ego


the_leech


May 6, 2007, 3:19 PM
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stymingersfink wrote:
rockclimbchar wrote:
... I'll let you off the hook...
i think your perception of who hooked who might be clouded by your ego

That, and a complete lack of critical thinking skills, intelligence and insight. But mostly clouded by her ego.


stymingersfink


May 6, 2007, 3:25 PM
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...and a good day to you, sir!


interesting thread, I'm glad to have stumbled upon it. I nearly didn't click the thread, but since it was a Dingus post I couldn't resist. I must say, I appreciate the opportunity to sit at the feet of masters such as yourself and DMT. Perhaps one day my troll-ability might ascend to even 1/2 of the skill shown here...

I guess we all need to dream.Cool


dingus


May 6, 2007, 3:45 PM
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Re: [deane] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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deane wrote:
The thing that strikes me as at least a little bit funny is the fact that such a question would appear on a MASSIVE internet community that encourages everyone to try climbing. Shouldn't you be complaining about "N00BS" in some secret backcountry elitist hideaway rather than the internet? Just a thought...

They already know.

DMT

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