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Are Noobs Killing Our Sport?
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arikdurfee


May 6, 2007, 4:45 PM
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Re: [dingus] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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It's fascinating how much response this question has generated, especially considering that the question doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

First of all, who gets to decide the definition of noob (and do you have to type it n00b in order for it to be correct)? I've been climbing for years and I still don't think I can do anything over a 5.11. Does that make me a nOOb/NOOB/noob? And I don't like taking huge risks when climbing, mostly becuase I've got a wife and daughter to take care of. Does that make me a noob? Clarification on the term would be helpful.

And second of all, what exactly do you mean by "killing our sport"? Who gets to be included in the elusive "we" that apparently owns the sport? And more importantly, how exactly is the sport being killed?

If by "killing the sport" you mean that more people are climbing now so you can't feel quite as cool about yourself for knowing the meaning of terms like "redpoint" and "friction traverse" because now everybody knows them, then I'd say "killing the sport" is nothing more than a healthy ego-check.

If by "killing the sport" you mean people disrespecting nature by leaving trash and ruining trails and what not, then it's obviously not noobs ruining the sport; it's jerks. It's the same jerks that drop cigarettes into the snow from a ski lift and think there's nothing wrong with that.

If by "killing the sport" you mean people doing stupid things and getting themselves hurt and giving climbing a bad name, the only result I see there is less climbing by so-called noobs. People are going to be idiots no matter what anyone else says.

If by "killing the sport" you mean ruining access for everyone else, I hate to break it to you but access issues haven't exactly sprung up in the last ten years. In fact, in some places, it's getting a lot better. Castle Rocks, right next to the City of Rocks in southern Idaho, had access issues for years and has recently been opened and turned into Idaho's newest State Park.

If by "killing the sport" you mean people placing more permanent protection, then I think you mean furthering the "sport" and "killing the trad", and by "killing the trad" you could only mean making it so trad climbers have the occasional inconvenience of actually seeing a bolt in a wall. But that's just a matter of preference.

If by "killing the sport" you mean the systematic killing of all of the people who climb, I'm not sure that's happening. And I don't think noobs could pull it off. I think you'd need a group of well trained snipers for that.

Really, I'm not seeing any evidence of the sport being "killed" meaning that people are no longer enjoying the beauty of nature and pushing their bodies to do tough things just for the satisfaction of having accomplished it. I think that sport is alive and well and under no threat of being killed. And really, the sport isn't as mainstream popular as it was 10 years ago. The word "extreme" became really hip for a few years, but that has died down recently, so I don't think the sport of climbing has anything to worry about.


PS - Bravo on coming up with a such an effective discussion prompt.


stymingersfink


May 6, 2007, 5:32 PM
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Re: [arikdurfee] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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arikdurfee wrote:
If by "killing the sport" you mean the systematic killing of all of the people who climb, I'm not sure that's happening. And I don't think noobs could pull it off. I think you'd need a group of well trained snipers for that.
you have obviously missed the attempted infiltration by Marine Snipers which has been going on in these parts lately. It's like tequila I tell ya... it starts with one, then there's two, next thing you know you wake up the next morning lying in the neighbors driveway surrounded by a puddle of your own vomit and nursing a splitting headache!


rockclimbchar


May 7, 2007, 5:25 AM
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Re: [the_leech] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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the_leech wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:
rockclimbchar wrote:
... I'll let you off the hook...
i think your perception of who hooked who might be clouded by your ego

That, and a complete lack of critical thinking skills, intelligence and insight. But mostly clouded by her ego.

Ouch, I must start therapy first thing tomorrow!Shocked And thanks for the wake up call, I really needed it. Wink


ebonezercabbage


May 7, 2007, 6:02 AM
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Re: [rockclimbchar] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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Absurd question.....Ok, so an influx of noobs...so what? first of all, they can't kill the sport, they do exactly the oposite: more people, means a sustained future. If there were no noobs, then the only people to ever climb again would be those who are currently living. Duh.


Also,

climbing is a lifestyle in many ways for the hardest core of us out there. That will never change. The rest climb because its fun and enjoy it, not because they are trying to stand for something or want to change their way of life (as is their choice ). But the good thing is that for those that are standing for something, or want to accomplish something bigger than themselves ( say, create a national park, or something along those lines ) many more noobs means a hell of a lot more signatures on ur petition or more calls to ur congressman, etc.


I think the true killers of this sport may turn out to be those who look/talk down to noobs, and try to keep them out of the "society". F-that. Sooner or later, there will be more of them than of you and suddenly, they are the ones keeping you out.


Come on ppl. Why ask such stupid questions?


dingus


May 7, 2007, 6:22 AM
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Re: [arikdurfee] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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arikdurfee wrote:
It's fascinating how much response this question has generated, especially considering that the question doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Lemme break it down for you!

In reply to:
First of all, who gets to decide the definition of noob

I said so in the OP dude - dirtbaggers and the elite. WHO ELSE????

In reply to:
I've been climbing for years and I still don't think I can do anything over a 5.11. Does that make me a nOOb/NOOB/noob? And I don't like taking huge risks when climbing, mostly becuase I've got a wife and daughter to take care of. Does that make me a noob?

No and no.

In reply to:
And second of all, what exactly do you mean by "killing our sport"?

The King is dead, long live the King, capice?

In reply to:
Who gets to be included in the elusive "we" that apparently owns the sport?

Its a self-actualization process. You'll know it when you arrive.

In reply to:
And more importantly, how exactly is the sport being killed?

How? With bolts and cams and a ton of shiny gear ande hordes and hordes of follow-the-leaders, trampling the once green grass of our sport.

Here's the tricky part..... (I'll use local reference to illustrate the point).... the Stonemasters of Yosemite 70s fame KILLED the Robbins era sport of climbing, KILT IT DEAD. Just as Robbins boys KILT the sport before them.

In reply to:
If by "killing the sport"...
In reply to:
If by "killing the sport"...
In reply to:
If by "killing the sport"...
In reply to:
If by "killing the sport"...
In reply to:
If by "killing the sport"...
In reply to:
If by "killing the sport"...

In reply to:
PS - Bravo on coming up with a such an effective discussion prompt.

Yer in the deep end of the pool here matie!

DMT


(This post was edited by dingus on May 7, 2007, 6:26 AM)


rockclimbchar


May 7, 2007, 6:40 AM
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Re: [ebonezercabbage] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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ebonezercabbage wrote:
Absurd question.....Ok, so an influx of noobs...so what? first of all, they can't kill the sport, they do exactly the oposite: more people, means a sustained future. If there were no noobs, then the only people to ever climb again would be those who are currently living. Duh.


Also,

climbing is a lifestyle in many ways for the hardest core of us out there. That will never change. The rest climb because its fun and enjoy it, not because they are trying to stand for something or want to change their way of life (as is their choice ). But the good thing is that for those that are standing for something, or want to accomplish something bigger than themselves ( say, create a national park, or something along those lines ) many more noobs means a hell of a lot more signatures on ur petition or more calls to ur congressman, etc.


I think the true killers of this sport may turn out to be those who look/talk down to noobs, and try to keep them out of the "society". F-that. Sooner or later, there will be more of them than of you and suddenly, they are the ones keeping you out.


Come on ppl. Why ask such stupid questions?

Very well put. I definitely agree. Did you read my initial posting? I unknowingly (at the time) made a dreadful mistake of using an incredibly controversial word "ego" and really lit a fire under some people. Why did I even reply to them???? That was really idiotic of me. Oh well, it gave them some free entertainment by messing with me. I'm done with this crap. You are right, it was a stupid question. I should have just left it alone with my first posting. My first time following a thread like this. Lesson learned the hard way. I am soooo humbled.Blush I liked what you said. I'm glad somebody was able to get to the point. I unfortunately diverted away from the point. Again, I am humbled. My intentions were goodAngelic, I am new to this (following and participating in a thread) and being naive about it, well...... whatever, The End. Smile


dingus


May 7, 2007, 7:05 AM
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Then again it could be you're just wrong as you can be about ego and major climbing accomplishments.

DMT


bobruef


May 7, 2007, 7:57 AM
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Re: [rockclimbchar] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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rockclimbchar wrote:
ebonezercabbage wrote:
Absurd question.....Ok, so an influx of noobs...so what? first of all, they can't kill the sport, they do exactly the oposite: more people, means a sustained future. If there were no noobs, then the only people to ever climb again would be those who are currently living. Duh.


Also,

climbing is a lifestyle in many ways for the hardest core of us out there. That will never change. The rest climb because its fun and enjoy it, not because they are trying to stand for something or want to change their way of life (as is their choice ). But the good thing is that for those that are standing for something, or want to accomplish something bigger than themselves ( say, create a national park, or something along those lines ) many more noobs means a hell of a lot more signatures on ur petition or more calls to ur congressman, etc.


I think the true killers of this sport may turn out to be those who look/talk down to noobs, and try to keep them out of the "society". F-that. Sooner or later, there will be more of them than of you and suddenly, they are the ones keeping you out.


Come on ppl. Why ask such stupid questions?

Very well put. I definitely agree. Did you read my initial posting? I unknowingly (at the time) made a dreadful mistake of using an incredibly controversial word "ego" and really lit a fire under some people. Why did I even reply to them???? That was really idiotic of me. Oh well, it gave them some free entertainment by messing with me. I'm done with this crap. You are right, it was a stupid question. I should have just left it alone with my first posting. My first time following a thread like this. Lesson learned the hard way. I am soooo humbled.Blush I liked what you said. I'm glad somebody was able to get to the point. I unfortunately diverted away from the point. Again, I am humbled. My intentions were goodAngelic, I am new to this (following and participating in a thread) and being naive about it, well...... whatever, The End. Smile

Holy massive ego batman! 6 words in reference to the post you quoted and ~147 to talking about yourself. Shocked


shockabuku


May 7, 2007, 8:17 AM
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rockclimbchar wrote:
ebonezercabbage wrote:
Absurd question.....Ok, so an influx of noobs...so what? first of all, they can't kill the sport, they do exactly the oposite: more people, means a sustained future. If there were no noobs, then the only people to ever climb again would be those who are currently living. Duh.


Also,

climbing is a lifestyle in many ways for the hardest core of us out there. That will never change. The rest climb because its fun and enjoy it, not because they are trying to stand for something or want to change their way of life (as is their choice ). But the good thing is that for those that are standing for something, or want to accomplish something bigger than themselves ( say, create a national park, or something along those lines ) many more noobs means a hell of a lot more signatures on ur petition or more calls to ur congressman, etc.


I think the true killers of this sport may turn out to be those who look/talk down to noobs, and try to keep them out of the "society". F-that. Sooner or later, there will be more of them than of you and suddenly, they are the ones keeping you out.


Come on ppl. Why ask such stupid questions?

Very well put. I definitely agree. Did you read my initial posting? I unknowingly (at the time) made a dreadful mistake of using an incredibly controversial word "ego" and really lit a fire under some people. Why did I even reply to them???? That was really idiotic of me. Oh well, it gave them some free entertainment by messing with me. I'm done with this crap. You are right, it was a stupid question. I should have just left it alone with my first posting. My first time following a thread like this. Lesson learned the hard way. I am soooo humbled.Blush I liked what you said. I'm glad somebody was able to get to the point. I unfortunately diverted away from the point. Again, I am humbled. My intentions were goodAngelic, I am new to this (following and participating in a thread) and being naive about it, well...... whatever, The End. Smile

You can't quit, can you? You're just biting your nails trying not to reply to this aren't you? I'm trying to help you out here - the right answer is not to reply.


the_leech


May 7, 2007, 8:37 AM
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rockclimbchar wrote:
the_leech wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:
rockclimbchar wrote:
... I'll let you off the hook...
i think your perception of who hooked who might be clouded by your ego

That, and a complete lack of critical thinking skills, intelligence and insight. But mostly clouded by her ego.

Ouch, I must start therapy first thing tomorrow!Shocked And thanks for the wake up call, I really needed it. Wink

Therapy might help with your ego issues. Alas, all the therapy in the world cannot change your complete lack of critical thinking skills, intelligence and insight. You're stuck with that for good. Do you understand?


kenyakiki


May 7, 2007, 10:12 AM
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Re: [bobruef] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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Oh your horse is bigger than mine. I think you are trying to compensate for your less that adequate penis size!

So Mr. napoleon complex... I suggest you get over that high and mighty attitude and realize that people with the "little ponies" have the numbers!


bobruef


May 7, 2007, 11:58 AM
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kenyakiki wrote:
Oh your horse is bigger than mine. I think you are trying to compensate for your less that adequate penis size!

So Mr. napoleon complex... I suggest you get over that high and mighty attitude and realize that people with the "little ponies" have the numbers!

Ahh, the masses of the world will always begrudge the proud for their success, won't they? First, you ask me to tone my self esteem and achievement down to your level by getting down from my high horse, and now you're trying to trick me into it by making jokes about my penis size! Blush Well, I'm not coming down. I like it up here. I'll not be tricked into lowering myself to pleasure you, or your masses.

You kids and your ponies may have the numbers, but the nubers happen to also be where "average", "mediocre", and "ordinary" find their home. Seeking company amongst the masses is to invite stagnation. I think I'll be content keeping myself and my steed to a higher standard.Tongue

So, please, spare us your pedestrian humor and conformist attitude. And stop being ashamed of your ego!


(This post was edited by bobruef on May 7, 2007, 2:06 PM)


richardvg03


May 7, 2007, 3:13 PM
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codhands wrote:
When nOObs are outlawed, only outlaws will be nOObs. Think about it.....

Ya man I HATE noobs! I mean you'd think it'd be better if I taught them something to help them out and help the sport out but enstead I'm going to climb and glare at them and pout because new people want to enjoy something I enjoy! How dare them! HAVE THEY NO RESPECT?!!! I bet some of them even think a home depot carabiner would work! Worthless!!

I wish nobody except for me would climb!!! That way all the rock climbing companies would make gear JUST for ME!! ME!! ME!!

Tongue


richardvg03


May 7, 2007, 3:23 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:
you have obviously missed the attempted infiltration by Marine Snipers which has been going on in these parts lately. It's like tequila I tell ya... it starts with one, then there's two, next thing you know you wake up the next morning lying in the neighbors driveway surrounded by a puddle of your own vomit and nursing a splitting headache!

HAHAHAHA attempted???? please... I'm behind enemy lines already!!


stymingersfink


May 7, 2007, 3:43 PM
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i've wondered how long it would take you to post outside the beginners forum.

i guess maybe this n00b's starting to grow on me a bit.Tongue i don't speak for the others though.Cooldelighted laugh escapes my lips as I finish reading the new posts to this thread only to come across the_leech's freshly baited hook. best of luck, leech... it's catch and release, but not unheard of to catch the same fish twice.


(This post was edited by stymingersfink on May 7, 2007, 3:56 PM)


Tania


May 9, 2007, 3:53 PM
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Re: [overlord] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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overlord wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
Its more than just length of time at the sport. Its experiance, passion, deisre to learn, among other things, that lift a person above n00b status.

ditto that.

and its not the noobs who are killing the sport, its the stupid noobs.

Double Ditto that Wink
"Noobs" not killing it. It has been said but I will say it again- I have taken many friends climbing and they really dont appreciate it as much as I do. Climbers, noob or not all have the passion in common.


azrockclimber


May 10, 2007, 5:03 AM
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urbanpioneer wrote:
Being a nOOb isn't related to the time you've been climbing but the attitude you bring to climbing. If you're climbing .12d and shouting like an asshole but bring your crashpad to sit around on while your dog shits all over the crag you're still a nOOb as far as I'm concerned.


LOL.... I have met a few people like that.... what a pain... and honestly, I hated that they climbed harder than me.... It felt like they didn't deserve it. haha


svilnit


May 10, 2007, 5:36 AM
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kenyakiki wrote:
Oh your horse is bigger than mine. I think you are trying to compensate for your less that adequate penis size!

So Mr. napoleon complex... I suggest you get over that high and mighty attitude and realize that people with the "little ponies" have the numbers!

Notice it's all the people that have been on here just a short time that are completely up in arms. Everybody else is sitting back giggling to themselves while giving the pot a quick stir every now and then to keep the fun going.


Partner j_ung


May 10, 2007, 6:23 AM
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svilnit wrote:
Notice it's all the people that have been on here just a short time that are completely up in arms. Everybody else is sitting back giggling to themselves while giving the pot a quick stir every now and then to keep the fun going.

Aye, the community has certainly co-opted the troll. Laugh


freezorburn


May 10, 2007, 7:01 AM
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richardvg03


May 10, 2007, 12:41 PM
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svilnit wrote:

Notice it's all the people that have been on here just a short time that are completely up in arms. Everybody else is sitting back giggling to themselves while giving the pot a quick stir every now and then to keep the fun going.

I like to stir the pot often... but I'm still a noob ;)


svilnit


May 10, 2007, 1:02 PM
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j_ung wrote:
svilnit wrote:
Notice it's all the people that have been on here just a short time that are completely up in arms. Everybody else is sitting back giggling to themselves while giving the pot a quick stir every now and then to keep the fun going.

Aye, the community has certainly co-opted the troll. Laugh

"the leech" when we put Dingus in the record books for this one there should be a footnote that it was a "community assisted troll"


the_leech


May 10, 2007, 2:50 PM
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svilnit wrote:
"the leech" when we put Dingus in the record books for this one there should be a footnote that it was a "community assisted troll"

This is how all trolls should be. If we work together, our trolls will be so much better!

It takes a village...


Partner oldsalt


May 10, 2007, 8:36 PM
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The Village - Aarghh!

It takes a little fooling around between consenting adults after all of the little n00bs have gone to bed to start a little troll.

After that, they are raised by their older cousins who have been around for awhile...


aln


May 11, 2007, 5:39 AM
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It could spoil your, or other peoples understanding or perception of the sport and what it means. But it's climbing up rocks, how can anyone spoil that?

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