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Poll: Climber Jobs/Careers
Business 5 / 7%
Business Admin 1 / 1%
General Retail 0 / 0%
Sports Retail 4 / 5%
Military/Police 5 / 7%
Guiding (climbing or other) 8 / 11%
Education 17 / 22%
Private/Home Business 3 / 4%
Law 4 / 5%
Forestry 4 / 5%
Tourism 2 / 3%
Fishing (general) 1 / 1%
Other (Please List) 22 / 29%
76 total votes
 

hugin


May 16, 2007, 8:52 AM
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granite_grrl wrote:
$12-17k? what the hell school did you do to! My undergrad, taking 6 courses a semister rather than the typical 5 and with expensive texts cost me ~$4k a semester, $8k a year.

Either you took classes 12 months a year, or you are factoring in your living expnses, which you will have whether you are working full time or going to school full time. The big diff is there is no money coming in while you're at school.

I got through at $1700 a semester in tuition, with another ~$3-4k in debt per semester for living costs and incidentals. So, we're talking about $10k/year.

That was at a US public school shortly before the recent run-up in public tuitions. A student at the same school now would be in for twice the in-state tuition cost. Now, go out-of-state or private, and we're talking tuition costs alone int eh tens of thousands.

Yeah. Education is getting 'spensive.


the_climber


May 16, 2007, 9:15 AM
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granite_grrl wrote:
$12-17k? what the hell school did you do to! My undergrad, taking 6 courses a semister rather than the typical 5 and with expensive texts cost me ~$4k a semester, $8k a year.

Either you took classes 12 months a year, or you are factoring in your living expnses, which you will have whether you are working full time or going to school full time. The big diff is there is no money coming in while you're at school.


$4-5k tuition
$500/semester books and suplpies*2 semesters $1000
$300/month rent (if your lucky)* 8 months $2400
Utilities and phone for 8 months $800
Food for 8 months $800
Vehicle insurance for 8 months $500 (again if your lucky)
extras such as clothes you might need $200
Social stuff (ie for stress relief) $400/semester*2 $800
Unexpected (ie medical, vet bills, vehical repairs) $500 to $1000


Total $11000 to $12500

Now if you are not lucky enough to get rent fro 300 and end up with 450 or more...$1200 exrta
And lets say you have to factor in Field Courses and Related supplies $800
.... wait, fild Course not in Country, passport expired add $150

Total $13150 to $14650

Now most people will be over 100 per month for food...

The cost ISN'T just tution. And not all areas of study lend themselves to workign while studying. For examples most of my labs required (2nd to 4th year courses) 20 to 40 hours to complete. 4 labs per semester.... miss more than 1 lab per couse: Incomplete Fail on the Course. Try holding down enough hous working to pay living expenses.

If your in some area of study with higher tuition than that $17k per year becomes a reality fast.


dynosore


May 16, 2007, 9:29 AM
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but you're assuming no income whatsoever, and no scholarships, grants, etc.

I'd tell my kids to do rotational assignments, where you go to school one semester, then work the next. A lot of companies will sponsor this for good students, and you finish in 5 years instead of 4 by working/schooling year round, and if you're any good, you'll be a shoe-in when you graduate. The last student I had working for me doing this was making 18$/hr, not bad for a college freshman.

Trades are a guaranteed way to wear out your body in the long run, unless you have your own company I'd stay away from construction.


granite_grrl


May 16, 2007, 9:40 AM
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the_climber wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
$12-17k? what the hell school did you do to! My undergrad, taking 6 courses a semister rather than the typical 5 and with expensive texts cost me ~$4k a semester, $8k a year.

Either you took classes 12 months a year, or you are factoring in your living expnses, which you will have whether you are working full time or going to school full time. The big diff is there is no money coming in while you're at school.


$4-5k tuition
$500/semester books and suplpies*2 semesters $1000
$300/month rent (if your lucky)* 8 months $2400
Utilities and phone for 8 months $800
Food for 8 months $800
Vehicle insurance for 8 months $500 (again if your lucky)
extras such as clothes you might need $200
Social stuff (ie for stress relief) $400/semester*2 $800
Unexpected (ie medical, vet bills, vehical repairs) $500 to $1000


Total $11000 to $12500

Now if you are not lucky enough to get rent fro 300 and end up with 450 or more...$1200 exrta
And lets say you have to factor in Field Courses and Related supplies $800
.... wait, fild Course not in Country, passport expired add $150

Total $13150 to $14650

Now most people will be over 100 per month for food...

The cost ISN'T just tution. And not all areas of study lend themselves to workign while studying. For examples most of my labs required (2nd to 4th year courses) 20 to 40 hours to complete. 4 labs per semester.... miss more than 1 lab per couse: Incomplete Fail on the Course. Try holding down enough hous working to pay living expenses.

If your in some area of study with higher tuition than that $17k per year becomes a reality fast.

yeah, so like I said, you were factoring living expenses. I wouldn't factor them in because you have them regadless of working or school, but it doesn't matter. We're just nit-picking now.

I will agree with the not working part time thing, that was something I was never able to do. Engineering was demanding enough by itself. And you might want to add on that when you do work over the summer as a student you're stuck with piss poor pay most of the time unless you luck out with coop placements.

End result: too many people go through 4 years of school and get a degree that they can't even use, plus they have a huge debt to pay off. It boggles the mind that more people don't get into trades.


binrat


May 16, 2007, 9:41 AM
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Join the Cdn Forces. Lots of benefits and a good pension once you're done. I plan to retire this fall with healthy pension, then become a rock guide in Ontario.


the_climber


May 16, 2007, 10:00 AM
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Posts: 6142

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dynosore wrote:
but you're assuming no income whatsoever, and no scholarships, grants, etc.
No, just the cost... now if you only have 4 months to work a year, you don't finish paying off the previous year... Oh, BTW for anyone interested... budget cuts to a project will drop summer student first. For example, if you land that job in October for the next summer and the budget is cut over the winter, your summer employment is never guarantied.

dynosore wrote:
I'd tell my kids to do rotational assignments, where you go to school one semester, then work the next. A lot of companies will sponsor this for good students, and you finish in 5 years instead of 4 by working/schooling year round, and if you're any good, you'll be a shoe-in when you graduate.
Rotational stuff only works IF the institution offers the courses in such a way that it would allow for that. For example, many 3rd and 4th year courses at a lot of universities are only offered every second year and in only one semester. The shoe in can come from summer work too. Also it is not always as easy as it sounds to get that company sponsorships, or scholarships for that matter too. But, bottom line is most universities and colleges are set up on a program catering to fall and winter semesters only, with the exception being "general" (not all) 1st year courses, and a few second year courses.

dynosore wrote:
The last student I had working for me doing this was making 18$/hr, not bad for a college freshman.
No not bad money, but you can also $27/h in the field during summers with only 2 years of university. Problem is you don't see all of that till after you get your taxes back.

Also, the average time to complete a 4 year program is already 5 years in most sciences and engineering degrees... and that's without rotational work.

All of this is assuming that Student loans will give you the money in the first place, and if they do... it's "assuming" they get it to you on time. My experience with student loads is that they are not set up to help the students as much as they claim. An old prof of mine crunched the numbers and found that student loans are about 20 years behind on their calculations for living expenses and tuition when you see the amount they actually give the average student.


dynosore wrote:
Trades are a guaranteed way to wear out your body in the long run, unless you have your own company I'd stay away from construction.
Agreed

dynosore wrote:
I'd tell my kids to do rotational assignments
In reply to:
For your kids' sake I hope that works out.


the_climber


May 16, 2007, 10:06 AM
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granite_grrl wrote:
End result: too many people go through 4 years of school and get a degree that they can't even use, plus they have a huge debt to pay off. It boggles the mind that more people don't get into trades.

Very very true!


coastal_climber


May 16, 2007, 10:21 AM
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yokese wrote:
Does it have to be legal to be considered a job??

That's what the government thinks.

>Cam


hugin


May 16, 2007, 10:29 AM
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Something I forgot to mention - I was working 20-30 hours a week through school, so that was another few thousand - so we're easily talking mid- to upper-teens, just for a cheap state school education.


coastal_climber


May 16, 2007, 10:55 AM
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wonder1978 wrote:
Now this part is worth repeating. I agree with every single word. You can dream about being a fully-sponsored climber, just as you can dream of being a rockstar or a movie star, but unless you actually become one, the reality is that you'll spend more of your time working and less climbing. Choose something you actually feel like doing. The paycheck is important, but if you let it dictate your life, you'll feel cheated in the long run.

I want a job that I will enjoy, and make enough, and have enough time to climb as much as I can.

>Cam


nurocks


May 16, 2007, 11:40 AM
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Registered: Jul 18, 2003
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I'm a geologist...well rather I once was...then I went back for a M.S. and in 6 weeks I will be one again. Yeah rocks and water.


the_climber


May 16, 2007, 12:19 PM
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nurocks wrote:
I'm a geologist...well rather I once was...then I went back for a M.S. and in 6 weeks I will be one again. Yeah rocks and water.

Woo Hoo! Rocks, and dead things! Errr, Rocks, water, ice, and extinct things.




What did you do your masters in? Errr, Just read it in you profile. Hydro is some sweet shizzle! I'm more of a glacier and gold/diamond gym myself.


(This post was edited by the_climber on May 16, 2007, 12:24 PM)


dynosore


May 16, 2007, 12:23 PM
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In reply to:
Also, the average time to complete a 4 year program is already 5 years in most sciences and engineering degrees... and that's without rotational work.

Pffft I'm surrounded by Chem E's who finished in 4 years, and I'd dare say that's a harder degree to get than M.E.'s.

Guess it all depends on your motivation...my wife and I both made it through school and we ended up with NO DEBT, she had scholarships (and co-oped all but her last year), and I worked full time and my companies paid for my school. If you want to party and booze, and take summers off (i.e. be an immature spoiled brat) you'll have to deal with some debt. Scholarships are easy to get BTW, so many go unclaimed because people are too lazy to even apply, my wife ended up not even needing all that she received and we actually turned some down so someone who needed it could have it.

If you want to go to college, and are willing to work hard, the possibilities for help are endless. If I could do it with NO help from my family, no gov. grants, others can too.


the_climber


May 16, 2007, 12:58 PM
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dynosore wrote:
Pffft I'm surrounded by Chem E's who finished in 4 years, and I'd dare say that's a harder degree to get than M.E.'s.

Guess it all depends on your motivation...my wife and I both made it through school and we ended up with NO DEBT, she had scholarships (and co-oped all but her last year), and I worked full time and my companies paid for my school. If you want to party and booze, and take summers off (i.e. be an immature spoiled brat) you'll have to deal with some debt. Scholarships are easy to get BTW, so many go unclaimed because people are too lazy to even apply, my wife ended up not even needing all that she received and we actually turned some down so someone who needed it could have it.

If you want to go to college, and are willing to work hard, the possibilities for help are endless. If I could do it with NO help from my family, no gov. grants, others can too.

Good for you, but it all comes down to what you’re studying. If you don't drink or do much for your stress relief then you obviously have fewer expenses. But most eventually end up with some dept. After 7 years, yes seven, of post-secondary I've ended up with half the debt of most of my peers. That's with working 3 to 4 months a year.

Motivated? Dean's Honour Roll 4 of those years motivated enough for you? Not everyone's responsibilities end at their courses, remember that.
Yes a lot of scholarships go unclaimed, but not all are eligible, and even those that are do not always receive them.

dynosore wrote:
If you want to party and booze, and take summers off (i.e. be an immature spoiled brat) you'll have to deal with some debt.

Bit of a bold, pompous, and outright arrogant statement don't you think?
Take summers off? Try working 56-day rotations with 3 days off between rotations.
Party and Booze sure, most of us do that from time to time, a lot of us simple work through the hangover the next day without calling in sick.

I know for a fact that I'm not the only one working hard on the off time and even harder during the semesters, you should see the student's I have worked and studied with over the years. And BTW many international students are not able to get the same scholarships and funding. I've seen many friends suffer through it.


hmmm,
dynosore wrote:
companies paid for my school
dynosore wrote:
(i.e. be an immature spoiled brat)

NOW, "ie. be an immature spoiled brat"... Pull your Conceited haughty egotistical overconfident narcissistic head out of your pompous ass you arrogant little spoiled shit. Respectfully.


Oh, BTW you not the only one who "Had no help from Daddy"


(This post was edited by the_climber on May 16, 2007, 12:59 PM)


dynosore


May 16, 2007, 6:37 PM
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LOL personalize things much? Never said YOU weren't working hard Crazy Yeah, my jobs paid for my school, try working 40 hours + travel a week (I was doing TS&D) and going to school at night for a Chem degree, I hardly think I was spoiled.

I stand by my assertion: if you're resourceful and hard working, you'll come out of school with minimal debt. Like anything else in life, you'll get back what you put in. I missed out on the whole "college experince" I suppose, but I had other priorities....and not accumulating debt was one of them.


the_climber


May 16, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Errr, I was having a bit of a bad day at work.... sorry about that... It does read kinda funny now that I look back at it Tongue


dancesonrocks


May 16, 2007, 11:25 PM
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Put another one down for Graphic Designer. However, I love my job. I used to work for others in in house design departments but now I design for my websites and stores and only take on freelance jobs if I want to.

Can't beat the flexible hours I give myself ;)

I've also worked in the movie industry (promotions and publicity... exec side) potential for really good money but long hours and cutthroat competition.


ebonezercabbage


May 17, 2007, 4:48 AM
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Re: [coastal_climber] Climber Jobs/Careers [In reply to]
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I am a recent college graduate ( 4 years, mathematics) working in the defense industry as an engineer in project management. I have less than one year's experience and am making 80K+ to start. I also get 30 days vacation ( plus the big 6 ) a year. So it is possible to make good money in engineering right out of the gate and have a good amount of time off as well.

Downside: I am salary, some weeks i work for more than 60-70+ hours.

Upside: Project management takes me all over the world. I travel about 30-40% of my time. Lots of fun now, but i'll probably calm that down as i get older.....



Just some food for thought.


(This post was edited by ebonezercabbage on May 17, 2007, 4:49 AM)


collegekid


May 18, 2007, 1:41 PM
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I have to go along with education, in general.

There's really infinite directions you can go with "Education" (I place all academic careers under "education").

If you like mentoring and helping people learn, along with dealing with children, become a k-12 teacher. As previously mentioned, you get good benefits, ok pay, and lots of vacation time.

If you're very curious and academically/research oriented, go for college teaching. I'm currently on the way to finishing my masters, and will be applying to PhD programs soon. In the academic world, you are somewhat liberated to pursue your own interests as well as teach those interests to others; however you have to be strongly self-motivated (for me that is not a problem) and productive (that can be difficult at times).

If climbing is your #1 priority, don't seek a career that requires more than a bachelor's degree--graduate education is only for those that gain personal fulfillment from education (i.e. learning/career is priority #1).

So if climbing is priority #1, you should rank potential careers by:
1. ability to take time off
2. Benefits (health insurance primarily)
3. Job stability and wages


hugin


May 19, 2007, 9:58 AM
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ebonezercabbage wrote:
I am a recent college graduate ( 4 years, mathematics) working in the defense industry as an engineer in project management. I have less than one year's experience and am making 80K+ to start. I also get 30 days vacation ( plus the big 6 ) a year. So it is possible to make good money in engineering right out of the gate and have a good amount of time off as well.

Downside: I am salary, some weeks i work for more than 60-70+ hours.

Upside: Project management takes me all over the world. I travel about 30-40% of my time. Lots of fun now, but i'll probably calm that down as i get older.....



Just some food for thought.

Jebus H Christ, dude. How'd you land that? It took me a few years to hit that kind of pay doing systems engineering, and if that's your starting point, then you've got hella earning potential (the people that hold the purse strings usually do, though). I work in civil space, and wouldn't want to do defense, but I am somewhat on a project management path, so your secrets would be helpful.

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