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bold
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Sep 26, 2002, 3:34 PM
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Hey,
When climbing is it good to use your gear sparingly or be as safe as you possibly can. What i mean is i know that you have to keep placement to however many pieces you have,but say i have plenty enough pieces should I, A)place as many as possible considering it's my first time,or B) use placement to a minimum.Thanx
[ This Message was edited by: bold on 2002-09-26 08:34 ]
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tradguy
Sep 26, 2002, 3:44 PM
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For your first trad lead, I recommend A) doing an easy climb that you know you aren't going to fall on, and B) put in plenty of gear.
As an example, if you are a 5.10 climber and are starting with a 5.4 trad lead, you might feel comfortable with the climbing, but you still want to place a piece every 6-10 feet or so, since that's why you're climbing the easy route in the first place - so you can PRACTICE placing gear.
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rocknpowda
Sep 26, 2002, 4:15 PM
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A couple of things:
It is safer to have the gear you need to get you all the way to the end of the pitch. For instance, If you have two of each size cam, placing them both close together low on the pitch is going to screw you if you need that size up higher. It is best to "read" the route and place accordingly. so instead of placing both your #1 size cams in close to each other, place one number one then find a different size piece to put in so you can have a #1 if you need one higher on the pitch. sometimes this isn't possible, but it is a good practice to get into. Nothing sucks more than getting to a difficult spot you want to protect and you realize you already burned the size(s) you need.
Another thing: clean aid climbing on easy, straight-forward cracks will help you get a good feel for what will hold and what won't because you have to hang your weight on every piece. It will show you what a good placement looks like and what a bad placement looks like. So find a short crack that you know you have enough gear to sew it up and go nuts.
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mountainmonkey
Sep 26, 2002, 4:37 PM
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Protecting every 6-10 feet is a good standard if the route is continuous in difficulty, steepness, and lack of ledges. However, not many routes are like that. Protect places that a fall would cause injury - above a ledge, traversing out of a dihedral, climbing out a roof, etc. This will require you to look down constantly and see where you last piece is to determine where you would end up if you fell. It takes practice and is scary but it will keep you safe.
One other note, look up to see what you will need for the crux. It is only a guess, so back clean if you have to.
casey
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winkwinklambonini
Sep 26, 2002, 6:28 PM
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protect when it's easy
climb when it's hard
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mreardon
Sep 26, 2002, 6:48 PM
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This one is always a tricky question. Before taking off on the pitch, try to find out what gear you may need later on where you might not be able to see, or what you need for the anchor. As for the gear placement, that's a personal choice. One partner of mine prefers to sew the pitch with a piece every 4-5 feet, which makes the climb take forever, and of course he always starts with an "iron kilt". Me, I tend to bring a double rack of cams and nuts, and place two pieces together at an "easy" stance (in case one piece walks, the other should be fine), so that I can run it out 10-20 feet climbing the hard stuff.
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tradklime
Sep 26, 2002, 9:14 PM
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When to place gear is very subjective. I tend to climb like mreardon, however I would add that I also tend to protect ground/ ledge falls. My partner will sew it up through the crux. To each his own. I like to conserve energy for the climbing moves, he likes the comfort of the pro.
If you are just starting, sew it up to be safe until you develope a style of your own and know what placements you can trust.
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apollodorus
Sep 26, 2002, 9:52 PM
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On some pumper climbs it's better to put in fewer pieces of pro, because you can move up faster before you burn out. If you are just starting to learn trad, you should avoid those kinds of routes. Stick with ones that have lots of places to rest.
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timpanogos
Sep 26, 2002, 10:39 PM
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Ok, I've seen this said a few times - back clean the pieces you need. I can see this in aid, but what do you mean by backclean?
How do you back clean that cam you just climbed 10' above? Are you suggesting to downclimb get the piece and off ya go?
If this is the case, I assume you would prefer to have at least 2 pieces between you and a hit - so you would need to downclimb to the 2nd one back right?
Doesn't really sound like a real option???
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mountainmonkey
Sep 26, 2002, 10:51 PM
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Back cleaning involves placing a bomber piece (and possibly another good piece), lowering down to the piece you need and retrieving them, then batmanning your way backup - be sure to have really really good pieces between you and the hard rock below. This is a pain for you and your belayer. Sometimes for a continuous section it might be easier to leap frog pieces or walk pieces up. It is always best to plan ahead as all the comments seem to point to.
Batman - pull down on the rope running to the belayer to 'pulley your self back up' - be sure you belayer takes in slack to hold you.
leapfrog - place a piece, climb a little, place another piece, clean the previous piece, repeat.
ethics be dammed
casey
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petsfed
Sep 26, 2002, 11:02 PM
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Shirking on pieces throughout the climb is not a good idea. It'd be better to cram more at the bottom fourth because a fall there will put more force on the anchors, whereas near the top the rope has a lot more room to stretch without hitting the limit so you can run it out more. That and once you're "in the groove" higher up in the climb it will be harder to stay there if you're stopping often to place pro. Ex: East Face Right, Dome Rock, Boulder Canyon, CO (for all the dudes who free solo this thing, and I've met a few nice guys all, what are you reading this thread for?). The first third eats gear. The second third is slimmer, and after that it is blank until you hit the roof just below the summit. The face climbing is cruiser and there are no places for pro, but at that point you're too focused on getting to the top to belay up your second. And a fall would suck. Its slabby so it would skin you like a rabbit.
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hawk233
Sep 27, 2002, 12:54 AM
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I just did my first trad climb a couple of days ago, and heres my advice.
Do an VERY easy route. I tried a 5.8 and it was way scarier than I thought. So in the end I spent so much time placing tons of gear that I only made it halfway up the climb because I was too pumped to continue. But man, you should have seen it. I sewed up that route like you wouldn't believe.
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tanner
Oct 5, 2002, 12:50 AM
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Start on a realy easy climb (sub 5.6)I was dumb And jumped on a 5.8 I had never tryed before. It was a little scary, the last 15 feet where runout.
Go some place out of the way and place gear every place it will fit. Reason: The point is to get an idea what works and what doesn't. You learn more with 15 peices than 3. And Keep doing that. You should have to think about climbing you should only be thinking about gear.
Oh, and start with passive gear!
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rushjunkie11
Oct 11, 2002, 2:22 AM
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Ill repeat what several people have said: Start on a easy climb you feel comfortable on.
I try to set a peice every 10-15 feet with a few important placements doubled up for security. If you reach a point where you're so worried about your gear below you that it affects your ability to climb, back off.
I carry a set of nuts and hexes with two pieces of the medium sizes, a couple of tricams for horizontals, and a set of cams.
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