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climb_eng
May 23, 2007, 6:11 AM
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Hello, heres a question for ya'll:
Yesterday, I was unpacking the car from a climbing trip. I picked up a bottle of cleaner then was lying loose in the car, and accidently spilled some around the car. I'm worried because it splashed a short bit (maybe 1') of my climbing rope (Beal Top Gun 2) with the stuff.
The rope is double-dry treated, the splash felt dry after 3 or 4 minutes; I then tossed the rope into a tub of fresh water... the rope absorbed no liquid (it's a new rope) and was dry half an hour later.
The cleaner spilled with SC Johnson Fantastik - Oxy Power... the product contanted predominantly citric acid, as well as some hydrogen peroxide....
So my question is: did I damage my rope? Is it still ok to climb on? Answer away.....
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overlord
May 23, 2007, 9:17 AM
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this would be in the 'id be really carefull' category. peroxide is nasty stuff, but i dont know how it reacts with nylon. citric acid, unless really concentrated, is pretty much lemon juice. what were the concentrations, btw? and what the cleaner meant for. if its for calcium buildup removing (like in a bathroom), id say youre screwed.
id recommend cutting the damaged part of the rope off, if possible. i just wouldnt trust it.
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gunkiemike
May 23, 2007, 9:55 AM
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Oxygen bleach is much more aggressive than most of the things folks worry about getting on their rope (gasoline, tree sap). Yea, I'd worry. I'd also start carrying the rope in a protective bag. Even a plastic shopping bag from the grocery store would have helped.
If I were in your shoes I'd ask the Beal folks.
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vertical_planar
May 23, 2007, 10:02 AM
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DEfinetly ask Beal. I had in the past, they are quite helpful.
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rocknice2
May 23, 2007, 10:32 AM
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I found this from Clorox:
http://www.oxygenaction.com/faq_laundry.html#b3
In reply to: Is Clorox® Oxi Magic™ stain remover spray safe on nylon, silk, or wool? We would not recommend using Clorox® Oxi Magic™ stain remover spray on nylon, silk or wool. If in doubt about a garment, please use the colorfastness test described on the label. |
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king_rat
May 23, 2007, 11:15 AM
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Id be really careful, contacting Beal is probably your best bet.
Do you know which bit of your rope was affected? Was it a small identifiable section? If you decide that you don’t trust the rope any longer think about cutting out the offending section, you may be able to get use out of the rest of the rope, a 30m rope could still be used at the gym, and spare bits of tat are always useful.
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monkeychild
May 23, 2007, 12:22 PM
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Perozide is an oxidizing agent, so it might oxidize the nylon.
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gobennyjo
May 23, 2007, 12:43 PM
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Yea if they say dont use it on what you wear, then, I dont think it should be used on what you trust your life with
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j_ung
May 23, 2007, 12:46 PM
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Based on answers here, it doesn't look too good for the home team, Jay. Definitely call Beal.
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azrockclimber
May 23, 2007, 1:11 PM
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ask beal.... but I'd retire it.... beal will tell you the same thing....
150 bucks is worth piece of mind for me.
that sucks though...
stay safe
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coastal_climber
May 23, 2007, 5:20 PM
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Where on the rope did you spill? Could you cut it and use it for a lead rope in the gym?
>Cam
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ja1484
May 23, 2007, 5:43 PM
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Don't even call Beal. It's a waste of your time and theirs. Retire the rope, or cut off the damaged portion and turn it into a gym line.
How is this even a debate? You spilled a cleaner with not one, but TWO corrosive chemicals on your rope. It's toast.
Suck it up, spend another ~$150, and be cautious about how you store the next line.
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climb_eng
May 23, 2007, 6:15 PM
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Well, firstly, citric acid is not particularly corrosive as an acid, and secondly the concentration of hydrogen peroxide was in the 1% by composition range. I have emailed beal and am awaiting an answer.
Just an FYI, it's not actually my rope, its a buddy who threw it in my car. I've already bought him a replacement rope so I suppose it is mine now.
-JP
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ja1484
May 23, 2007, 6:44 PM
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Well, you go ahead and climb on it if you want. I recommend full disclosure to people you climb with if they don't know the rope could be hashed.
I myself would either chop the exposed portion or burn the thing. I'm not taking the chance.
But, not my life...
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dbrayack
May 23, 2007, 7:18 PM
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Sell it on eBay as new...
but seriously, you're life is worth more than 150 bucks, buy a new rope.
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marc801
May 23, 2007, 7:59 PM
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climb_eng wrote: Well, firstly, citric acid is not particularly corrosive as an acid, and secondly the concentration of hydrogen peroxide was in the 1% by composition range.
Citric acid, 10% conc. = B/C resistance
Hydrogen peroxide, 0.5% conc. = B/C
Hydrogen peroxide, 3% conc. = D
Where B, C and D resistance are defined:
B. Completely or almost non-erosive to nylon resins, but slightly swells nylon resins, leading to change in mechanical properties.
C. Slightly erosive to nylon resins at room temperature. The use period should be restricted, as it may be absorbed in significant amount.
D. Dissolves or decomposes nylon resins at room temperature in a short period of time.
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climb_eng
May 23, 2007, 8:06 PM
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marc801 wrote: climb_eng wrote: Well, firstly, citric acid is not particularly corrosive as an acid, and secondly the concentration of hydrogen peroxide was in the 1% by composition range. Looking up nylon chemical resistance we find: Citric acid, 10% conc. = B/C resistance Hydrogen peroxide, 0.5% conc. = B/C Hydrogen peroxide, 3% conc. = D Where B, C and D resistance are defined: B. Completely or almost non-erosive to nylon resins, but slightly swells nylon resins, leading to change in mechanical properties. C. Slightly erosive to nylon resins at room temperature. The use period should be restricted, as it may be absorbed in significant amount.
Hmmmm, well I guess I have my answer. Thanks guys.
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time2clmb
May 23, 2007, 11:44 PM
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JP. Pm me with the persons name who's rope this is, if it is a person I climb with or have climbed with, if it is returned to them. I want to make sure I never tie into that rope.....
I'll bring mine next time 
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knudenoggin
May 26, 2007, 3:06 AM
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climb_eng wrote: In reply to: ... B. Completely or almost non-erosive to nylon resins, but slightly swells nylon resins, leading to change in mechanical properties. C. Slightly erosive to nylon resins at room temperature. The use period should be restricted, as it may be absorbed in significant amount. Hmmmm, well I guess I have my answer. Thanks guys.
You have not merely nylon, but double-dry (tm) nylon, with some splach of
the liquid. (It would have been better to have immediately rinsed vs. waiting,
I'd think, but that's behind us now.)
Do you know where the affecte spot is (--s are) ?
Because if you're going to retire the rope, someone--Beal, perhaps?--might want
to test it. What's the dry treatment worth, here, against such contamination?
*kN*
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climb_eng
May 26, 2007, 3:20 AM
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So far, Beal has not gotten back to me on the rope. I'll try calling them next week I think.
Rope is retired, I'll happilly send it to beal if they want to test it.
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braaaaaaaadley
May 26, 2007, 3:48 AM
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From my very ltd. experience with polymer chemistry, oxidizers such as peroxide can in fact screw with the structure of polyester and nylon. If you are sure that the chemical only affected the outside of the rope, it is propably fine since the sheath of the rope does not bear the brunt of the force in a fall (the core does and there is no way to know whether or not the core was saturated by the chemical). However this is all relative and I would not recommend leaving it up to chance. If you have the means, get yourself a new rope and save the exposed rope for some other non climbing related activity.
(This post was edited by braaaaaaaadley on May 26, 2007, 3:50 AM)
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tradrenn
May 27, 2007, 9:57 PM
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climb_eng wrote: Rope is retired
Thank you, I'm glad to read that, before I rope up with you next year.
V.
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