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ElRabano
May 23, 2007, 3:34 PM
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Hey, I'm just looking for opinions here.
I'm considering getting a grigri so I can lead with people who have little experience belaying (i.e. some one I've just taught) and not fear for my life, so to speak.
Do you reckon they are worth the cost for the extra safety or are they simply an expensive doodad?
Mike
(This post was edited by ElRabano on May 23, 2007, 3:39 PM)
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j_ung
May 23, 2007, 3:40 PM
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I reckon it's an advanced belay device for advanced belayers and that just about every Gri-gri-related accident ever was caused by people using them without the proper skills. In many of those cases, said Gri-gri was put into the belayer's hands by an experienced climber who wanted to partner up with an inexperienced belayer and still be safe. Ironically, by passing him or her a Gri-gri, the experienced climber accomplished the polar opposite. In other words, no, I don't think it's worth it.
A much better investment is the time necessary to train your belayer.
(This post was edited by j_ung on May 23, 2007, 3:40 PM)
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ocary
May 23, 2007, 3:40 PM
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No. Noobs panic and grab the lever. You = dropped. Beating a dead horse: Grigris don't always lock even when user intervention is not part of the equation.
Take the time to teach someone correct belay technique.
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mturner
May 23, 2007, 3:45 PM
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I agree with above posts. Grigris are harder to learn then proper belay technique with a normal device. Even if you don't fall imagine the possible jerkyness of the rope when you're clipping.
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time2clmb
May 23, 2007, 3:58 PM
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ElRabano wrote: Hey, I'm just looking for opinions here. I'm considering getting a grigri so I can lead with people who have little experience belaying (i.e. some one I've just taught) and not fear for my life, so to speak. Do you reckon they are worth the cost for the extra safety or are they simply an expensive doodad? Mike
This subject has been beaten to death. Gri-gri's are not a substitute for proper belaying instruction. Noobs and gri-gri's are a dangerous combination. Spend the time to teach proper techniques or you will be pumping another noob through the gumby factory who will in turn fast track another noob through. IMO
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billcoe_
May 23, 2007, 5:01 PM
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train yer noobs better and spend the money on beer
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coastal_climber
May 23, 2007, 5:13 PM
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Spend the time to train your belayer. If they can't lead belay with confidence they shouldn't be belaying you outside. Gri Gri's are nice, but save them for when they are more experienced.
>Cam
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rc_vinay
May 23, 2007, 5:18 PM
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ElRabano wrote: I'm considering getting a grigri so I can lead with people who have little experience belaying (i.e. some one I've just taught) and not fear for my life, so to speak.
mike. generally grigri is not used for lead or clipping. it is widely used in top roped ascend. and dont trust people who you think have little experience of belaying.
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Pdizz
May 23, 2007, 5:30 PM
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It seems when ever my belayer is using a gri gri when i lead something they cant get rope out fast enough for me to clip or when im moving up
so ihavnt done that in a long time
I think its eaiser to belay with a ATC anyway.
(This post was edited by Pdizz on May 23, 2007, 5:32 PM)
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csproul
May 23, 2007, 5:43 PM
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rc_vinay wrote: ElRabano wrote: I'm considering getting a grigri so I can lead with people who have little experience belaying (i.e. some one I've just taught) and not fear for my life, so to speak. mike. generally grigri is not used for lead or clipping. it is widely used in top roped ascend. and dont trust people who you think have little experience of belaying.
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RockRatz
May 23, 2007, 5:48 PM
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Pdizz wrote: It seems when ever my belayer is using a gri gri when i lead something they cant get rope out fast enough for me to clip or when im moving up so ihavnt done that in a long time I think its eaiser to belay with a ATC anyway.
i agree, feeding rope on a lead with a gri gri is a pain in the ass. ATC is much better and for a noob on a grigri you would have more issues with taking rope on lead than them catching you an a fall.
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rballdan
May 23, 2007, 6:02 PM
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I learned using a Gri-gri and have never used anything other than that. Granted I have only been outdoors once but for me since I learned on that in the gym before I went out it was pretty easy for me. I know its a TON easier when top roped and someone is coming up to you. I always like the safety fact that if you fell and fell hard it would stop where with an ATC if they are not holding the rope you might fall all the way down. Just my opinion though, like I said I learned on it and have only been outdoors once using it.
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Pdizz
May 23, 2007, 6:17 PM
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In reply to: where with an ATC if they are not holding the rope you might fall all the way down.
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bobruef
May 23, 2007, 6:23 PM
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csproul wrote: rc_vinay wrote: ElRabano wrote: I'm considering getting a grigri so I can lead with people who have little experience belaying (i.e. some one I've just taught) and not fear for my life, so to speak. mike. generally grigri is not used for lead or clipping. it is widely used in top roped ascend. and dont trust people who you think have little experience of belaying. Seriously, there is no shame in not contributing to a topic and admitting to yourself that you don't really have a clue about the subject.
Seriously.
Back to the OP: I feel MUCH safer w/ an ATC in the hands of a nOOb as opposed to a Grigri. The Grigri is a wonderful piece of gear, and great for belaying a leader on sport routes, but it takes practice to develop good technique w/ it.
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ocary
May 23, 2007, 6:32 PM
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Pdizz wrote: In reply to: where with an ATC if they are not holding the rope you might fall all the way down. lol i would find a new belayer if hes not always holding on to the rope
When belaying from the top using a reverso, B-52, ATC-Guide, etc etc in autoblock mode is superior in my book to a GriGri still. The only pro to the GriGri in this case is the ease of lowering someone.
I would never again be belayed by a noob (or non-usual partner) on a top belay if they are using a standard tube. (Bad experience; no, I didn't die or even get hurt, but I was glad my bladder was empty before climbing)
All this being said, I am actually in the market for a GriGri for non-noob applications.
N.
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scuclimber
May 23, 2007, 7:43 PM
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T1
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pylonhead
May 23, 2007, 8:39 PM
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Not to pick on you specifically, but this T thing is getting pretty old.
Same with everyone accusing every poster of being a troll.
If you look at this guys posts, it's pretty clear that he's asking a serious question. Thankfully, he actually received a number of good answers to his question before the "troll" paranoia showed up.
Seriously, with you T people. The trolls have already beat you. They've got you so riled up that you can no longer trust that people actually ask real questions about climbing on a site devoted to climbing. As they say.. the terrorists have already won.
A real troll post is designed to elicit an emotional reaction from someone. The troll "wins" by pushing your emotional buttons. Possibly the best troll post of all time is http://www.adequacy.org/...12.2.42056.2147.html
The story is clearly ridiculous, and is designed to get 15 year old linux users worked up into a frenzy. And it worked.
But the thing is... if someone ask a completely reasonable question, and you answer it in a completely reasonable way, you haven't been trolled. Even if the person asking the question isn't really who he says he is.
So feel free to answer questions in a happy, helpful way without feeling shame or embarrassment.
And stop it with the troll accusations for every beginner who asks a simple question.
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moose_droppings
May 23, 2007, 8:50 PM
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pylonhead wrote: Not to pick on you specifically, but this T thing is getting pretty old. Same with everyone accusing every poster of being a troll. If you look at this guys posts, it's pretty clear that he's asking a serious question. Thankfully, he actually received a number of good answers to his question before the "troll" paranoia showed up. Seriously, with you T people. The trolls have already beat you. They've got you so riled up that you can no longer trust that people actually ask real questions about climbing on a site devoted to climbing. As they say.. the terrorists have already won. A real troll post is designed to elicit an emotional reaction from someone. The troll "wins" by pushing your emotional buttons. Possibly the best troll post of all time is http://www.adequacy.org/...12.2.42056.2147.html The story is clearly ridiculous, and is designed to get 15 year old linux users worked up into a frenzy. And it worked. But the thing is... if someone ask a completely reasonable question, and you answer it in a completely reasonable way, you haven't been trolled. Even if the person asking the question isn't really who he says he is. So feel free to answer questions in a happy, helpful way without feeling shame or embarrassment. And stop it with the troll accusations for every beginner who asks a simple question.
Now thats a T1
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ElRabano
May 23, 2007, 10:47 PM
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Crimony --
Little did I know my query would cause so much strife.
To those of you who answered my question, you have gratitude. Thanks to you, a few others and the memory of actually trying to use one (yeah, the ATC is much easier), I decided against getting one.
Hell, is just saved me like 50£ - That's a pretty good night out!
Thanks again,
Mike
(This post was edited by ElRabano on May 23, 2007, 10:49 PM)
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rocknice2
May 23, 2007, 11:13 PM
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ocary wrote: I would never again be belayed by a noob (or non-usual partner) on a top belay if they are using a standard tube. (Bad experience; no, I didn't die or even get hurt, but I was glad my bladder was empty before climbing) N.
Was the standard tube attached to the anchor. I mean was he/she belaying directly off the anchor.
(This post was edited by rocknice2 on May 23, 2007, 11:15 PM)
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climb_plastic
May 23, 2007, 11:52 PM
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Yeah crimony!
It's the way you asked the question. There are a lot of grigri users but they'd never recommend it the way you asked the question. It's like you expect the grigri to make up for the beginners lack of technique and experience and so then you don't need to fear for your life. It's not like that with a grigri. There are differences and weaknesses for both and you need to know what they are to belay with either one.
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patto
May 24, 2007, 4:38 AM
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I don't see how people can argue that Gri-Gris are not noob friendly. They are virtually foolproof if the noob doesn't touch the device. Of course proper instruction is always needed whatever the device.
The fact of the matter is less force is needed to catch a lead fall with a gri-gri. I think this is great for noobs. But this certainly doesn't replace sensible belay technique including ALWAYS having the brake hand on the rope.
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Pdizz
May 24, 2007, 5:26 AM
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In reply to: The fact of the matter is less force is needed to catch a lead fall with a gri-gri
im not a noob and i can barly belay a lead with my gri gri
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curtis_g
May 24, 2007, 6:33 AM
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yay, this time i didn't even have to scroll to find the reasonable response.
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overlord
May 24, 2007, 9:40 AM
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DO NOT give a beginner a grigri. invest some time and theach them how to belay properly with a non-locking device.
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