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adding bolts to a local crag
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Pdizz


May 28, 2007, 6:58 PM
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adding bolts to a local crag
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So theres a couple sport areas close to me that have horribly protected routes and crap for anchors.
some routes have 1 bolt for an anchor or none at all
but ususally when theres no bolts theres some kind of natural pro.
and almost all the routes are runout like hell
some of the anchors are spaced 2-3 feet apart and uneven as well.

So i was thinking i should go and add some safe anchors to alot of the routes at these places.
I dont want to bolt the actual routes because i know how touchy people get about that. I just want to make some decent anchors.

i could use some opinions on this, im just not sure if people would get mad and chop them or thank me

the places im talking about are beardsly boulder pile and the ice castles

ready.... GO!


(This post was edited by Pdizz on May 28, 2007, 7:08 PM)


Partner angry


May 28, 2007, 7:14 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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I personally would not complain if someone fixed bad anchors with good anchors.

I personally would not complain if someone replaced a bad lead bolt with a good one.

But....there's so many shades of grey where I would complain, here's a short list.

- Anchors have natural pro options and you can easily walk off the cliff. No need for new anchors then. (Of course one mans walkoff is another mans epic, not to mention erosion that walking causes)
- The old bolts predate gear to protect that section, nowdays with modern gear the route is perfectly safe without bolts
- If the anchors are placed in such a way that the route is actually easier or harder than it previously was.

And lastly, please don't fuck up the anchor replacement. I've seen some really bad fixes, so bad that it just needs fixed again. It's stupid really, you leave the rock looking like a bolt war happened and it's just a mistake. So get it right.

And the disclaimer. I have never climbed in Arizona, so I don't speak on behalf of shit.


meesier42


May 28, 2007, 7:16 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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contact the land owner/ manager and get their opinion.


rhythm164


May 28, 2007, 7:17 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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you can't please all the people all the time, so if you do indeed decide to replace the anchors, be ready to piss some folks off. In addition, before you undertake this, take a minute to research local access issues, because if you go bolting, and it closes the crag, you will not be popular. Also, some of those runout routes that take mixed gear could be intended to be exactly that: runout mixed gear routes, don't go retro-bolting a line that's already been done in good style, that's weak sauce. That being said, just make sure you bolt safely and properly, and good looking out in your attempt to make the crag a safer place to climb.


Pdizz


May 28, 2007, 7:20 PM
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Re: [angry] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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yeah these areas have fairly short routes ranging from 15 feet to 65 that really have no option for gear on most routes

i know ive seen some preaty nasty fixes, ill make sure and place them right and SAFE!


(This post was edited by Pdizz on May 28, 2007, 7:21 PM)


boltdagunks


Jun 2, 2007, 8:27 AM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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Pdizz wrote:
So theres a couple sport areas close to me that have horribly protected routes and crap for anchors.
some routes have 1 bolt for an anchor or none at all
but ususally when theres no bolts theres some kind of natural pro.
and almost all the routes are runout like hell
some of the anchors are spaced 2-3 feet apart and uneven as well.

WOW talk about a contradictory post . I really like the part " but ususally when theres no bolts theres some kind of natural pro."
No wonder there's such much anti-bolting hate !


time2clmb


Jun 2, 2007, 9:36 AM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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In reply to:
some routes have 1 bolt for an anchor or none at all
but ususally when theres no bolts theres some kind of natural pro.
and almost all the routes are runout like hell
some of the anchors are spaced 2-3 feet apart and uneven as well

If there are natural pro options then learn how to place pro.

Some people like to climb runouts...not every route needs a bolt every few feet.

If the anchor bolts are uneven and 2 - 3 feet apart then learn how to build an anchor. The 2 draw method does not always work.


stymingersfink


Jun 3, 2007, 3:55 PM
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Re: [time2clmb] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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i would recommend you contact the ASCA and inquire if they have anyone who participates in their Anchor Replacement Initiative local to your area. I'd be willing to bet that if they do have a contact in the area, they may prove to be one of the best resources for information local to you, plus they (at least the guy who does most of the ASCA work around the Wasatch) are always willing to have another hand on their weekend replacement projects.


healyje


Jun 3, 2007, 5:12 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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Replacing bad anchor bolts is one thing, but if there aren't anchors that's because it's a mixed crag and you're expected to have gear. Routes that "horrible protection" are probably mixed routes as well and you're supposed to be climbing with at least a couple of pieces of gear or a small rack.

You need to find and talk to the locals who climb there and who put up the routes before you do anything.


Pdizz


Jun 3, 2007, 6:04 PM
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Re: [healyje] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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i know how to build an anchor, and i know when a route needs mixed pro
these routes DONT have that option
some have natural pro i understand that and im not trying to put anchors where there not needed
but when theres only one route on a wall with bolts spaced 3 feet apart and uneven for the anchor , then it might need a proper anchor... wouldnt you say?
theres many more routes at the places im talking about with the same problem or different ones
read before you reply
it might help


Pdizz


Jun 3, 2007, 6:08 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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"time2clmb wrote:
Some people like to climb runouts...not every route needs a bolt every few feet.

Pdizz wrote:
I dont want to bolt the actual routes because i know how touchy people get about that.

........ like i said read before you reply


(This post was edited by Pdizz on Jun 3, 2007, 6:12 PM)


time2clmb


Jun 3, 2007, 6:22 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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I did read it.

In reply to:
with bolts spaced 3 feet apart and uneven for the anchor , then it might need a proper anchor... wouldnt you say

No I wouldn't say without seeing it. Perhaps they are placed this way for a reason. Oooohhhh the bolts are uneven and 3 feet apart. Big deal. Learn how to build an anchor....and if you do know how to as you claim then what's the problem?


Pdizz


Jun 3, 2007, 7:09 PM
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Re: [time2clmb] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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im just trying to help out, dick
why have wrongly paced bolts?
theres no reason for it
AT ALL
sure, you can make an anchor
but, is there a reason?
NO, i checked if there where maybe reason for the anchors being set up the way they are.
so im willing to put a little money and effort into making it better
got problem with that
THEN DONT CLIMB IT.
simple as that.
dont reply for the sake of arguing, i dont need advice from a moron


(This post was edited by Pdizz on Jun 3, 2007, 7:23 PM)


healyje


Jun 3, 2007, 7:13 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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Again, you need to figure out who did all this to begin with and who the 'locals' are before starting into any such endeavor.


anykineclimb


Jun 3, 2007, 7:18 PM
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Re: [healyje] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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the anchors might be that far apart and uneven due to rock quality (or lack threof)

not trying to insult you, but do you know how to place a bolt and where to place it if you to do this?


boku


Jun 3, 2007, 7:23 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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Pdizz wrote:
im just trying to help out, dick

Well, there it is.


Pdizz


Jun 3, 2007, 7:25 PM
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Re: [anykineclimb] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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jesus , why would i ask this if i dont know how to place a bolt or even build an anchor?
THINK


(This post was edited by Pdizz on Jun 3, 2007, 7:25 PM)


stymingersfink


Jun 3, 2007, 7:28 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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Pdizz wrote:
im just trying to help out, dick
huh. you must have edited your response, cause there's much more here than was in your initial response, to which i was going to reply:

"he's just trying to help out, jane."

Pdizz wrote:
why have wrongly paced bolts?
theres no reason for it
AT ALL
sure, you can make an anchor
but, is there a reason?
NO, i checked if there where maybe reason for the anchors being set up the way they are.
so im willing to put a little money and effort into making it better
got problem with that
THEN DONT CLIMB IT.
simple as that.
dont reply for the sake of arguing, i dont need advice from a moron
to which i might reply:

why don't you read the "to retro or not" thread and try to understand why he responded in the manner in which he did.


Pdizz


Jun 3, 2007, 7:33 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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i did edit it because i had more to say
i dont want to place bolts on any of the actual routes
JUST ANCHORS


rocknice2


Jun 3, 2007, 7:53 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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Pdizz wrote:
i know how to build an anchor,
but when theres only one route on a wall with bolts spaced 3 feet apart and uneven for the anchor , then it might need a proper anchor... wouldnt you say?
theres many more routes at the places im talking about with the same problem or different ones


Uneven anchors are the new norm around here anyway. One above the other and slightly to the side. 3 feet is very excessive but maybe it like that for a reason.[bad rock] I don't know?
Even or parallel anchor almost always have the left hand hanger as a spinner. This is because when you rap off the anchor you torque the left hand bolt in a counterclockwise direction.
The best anchor for harder stone is a Fixe hanger w/rap ring.


anykineclimb


Jun 3, 2007, 8:00 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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Pdizz wrote:
jesus , why would i ask this if i dont know how to place a bolt or even build an anchor?
THINK

like I said, maybe the rock is bad and thats why they're located that way.

THINK


Pdizz


Jun 3, 2007, 8:07 PM
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maybe, just maybe..... I climb there and you dont
in all seriousness THINK, you might find that it helps


Pdizz


Jun 3, 2007, 8:12 PM
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Re: [rocknice2] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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the rock isnt bad
im telling you guys
there is no reason at all for this
i climb there all the time
you guys dont
please stop assuming that I have no idea what im doing.


anykineclimb


Jun 3, 2007, 8:14 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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Pdizz wrote:
...i could use some opinions on this...

You got it


rocknice2


Jun 3, 2007, 8:22 PM
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Re: [Pdizz] adding bolts to a local crag [In reply to]
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Pdizz wrote:
the rock isnt bad
im telling you guys
there is no reason at all for this
i climb there all the time
you guys dont
please stop assuming that I have no idea what im doing.

You started this so take it like a man. Read what I said earlier again.

In reply to:
Even or parallel anchor almost always have the left hand hanger as a spinner. This is because when you rap off the anchor you torque the left hand bolt in a counterclockwise direction.

Maybe you don't know everything.

A remedy is also posted above in my previous post.

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