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climbinwv
Jun 4, 2007, 6:26 PM
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Anybody else out there have any doubt that the Trango Cinch is by far a superior device to the Petzl GriGri?
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caughtinside
Jun 4, 2007, 6:30 PM
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climbinwv wrote: Anybody else out there have any doubt that the Trango Cinch is by far a superior device to the Petzl GriGri? Actually yes. But i think my prejudice stems from the fact that I used the grigri as my primary belay device for like 4 years before I ever handled a cinch. I have both now, and I like the cinch. But, I still like the grigri better because I've got so much more experience with it. I have to force myself to use the cinch. Still a cinch rookie. I've shortroped leaders and I'm still not great at releasing it, if they pull up slack quickly and the device locks up. Need more practice...
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maldaly
Jun 4, 2007, 6:59 PM
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Keep your eyes peeled on our website. We just shot video instructions for a bunch of our stuff, including the Cinch, and it will be up sometime this month. caughtinside has it right. The best device is the one you've used the most and are most proficient with. Mal
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climbinwv
Jun 4, 2007, 7:12 PM
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Yeah...i was just lookin to settle an arguement between me and my climbing partner (J). 3 months ago he bought a grigri and I bought a cinch. It took me a day to master the basics of using it while he still looks poopy using his grigri. The reason we really bought them was b/c my wife cratered me 25ft while lowering me with a atc. While J and I have both been climbing for several years, both of our spouses are nOOby. My wife accidentally stood on the rope and when she realized it picked up her foot for a sec and lost control of me. This led us to both buy "autolockers" to hopefully prevent this from happening again. I have had so many people in my local climbing community voice oppionions on one device or another that I just wondered what the general consensus out there is. Additionally, J also bought a Freino bringing his grand total to $110. I do utilize the Trango suggestion of feeding the rope through a biner attached to my leg loop. My wife is 100% comfortable with the Cinch...His wife+grigri=jerky!!!!
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climbinwv
Jun 4, 2007, 7:17 PM
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Actually Malcom, My climbing partner that I refered to you climbed with @ New River Rendezvous...he said it was a blast getting to meet you....
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jesselfout
Jun 4, 2007, 7:26 PM
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Your a jerk brian.
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climbinwv
Jun 4, 2007, 7:30 PM
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Don't cry guy....I won't tell people the only reason you use the grigri is to pull robinator up the rock....so much tension in that line you could play it like a fiddle......
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billcoe_
Jun 4, 2007, 7:53 PM
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climbinwv wrote: The reason we really bought them was b/c my wife cratered me 25ft while lowering me with a atc. While J and I have both been climbing for several years, both of our spouses are nOOby. My wife accidentally stood on the rope and when she realized it picked up her foot for a sec and lost control of me. This led us to both buy "autolockers" to hopefully prevent this from happening again. My consensious is that if you cannot train a Noob properly how to use a ATC style device, you will be an equal dubass with your training the next device. ITS NOT THE DEVICE IT'S YOU. Change your ways or die. It's simple and I'm not joking at all. Have a nice day, I am only giving you this small smattering of free advice because I find this kind of shit so sad, f*ed up and disheartening. BTW, I woulnd't climb with ya till you pull your head out of your ass.
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robbovius
Jun 4, 2007, 7:56 PM
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I own both a grigri and a cinch, and find that each has it's advantages and disadvantages. GRIGRI: I and my partner never use it for belaying anymore, we use ATC/ATC clones exclusively. the grigri I find better for top-rope self belay, as it raps off much more smoothly (since it's got that nice folded edge to run the rope over, similar to the edge of an ATC). the grigri releases from lockup much more easily than the cinch. for trad leading I like the grigri for belaying the second directly from the anchor. CINCH: the cinch feeds much more freely than the grigri, I've used it for belaying the leader and thought it fed rope as easily as an ATC, as long as my hand placement was right on the device. rapping/lowering with the cinch requires putting an extra bend in the rope to control speed. it's somewhat more of a hassle to use thereby. the release lever requires much more effort to release after lockup, compared to the grigri (I use the trango-recommended thumb-on-the-pivot method) the cinch is much lighter than the grigri, opens morefreely and locks up tighter. I like it better than the grigri for belaying the second from the anchor.
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climbinwv
Jun 4, 2007, 7:56 PM
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Actually, she used the atc fine for over a year....everybody makes mistakes...fortunately this one wasn't fatal. I agree that properly training someone how to use a device is essential to safety. That is why I am grateful to Trango for all the information available on their website. Why are you so angry?
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billcoe_
Jun 4, 2007, 8:55 PM
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climbinwv wrote: Actually, she used the atc fine for over a year....everybody makes mistakes...fortunately this one wasn't fatal. I agree that properly training someone how to use a device is essential to safety. That is why I am grateful to Trango for all the information available on their website. Why are you so angry? Everybody makes mistakes? Everybody makes mistakes? I call bullshit in a big way. Everybody doesn't make mistakes. Your wife did and it was your fault as much as hers. You got lucky and survived your stupidity and ignorance but have not adjusted your attitude. It's a dangerous game, and people with your mentality tend to be the ones that get picked off needlessly. F* dude, scraping up bodies off the deck upsets me. It's one thing if someone is hanging it out and going for a FA on loose rocks, hey: shit happens. But to say "everybody makes mistakes" in a sport where a single mistake can will and does cost you your life only makes you out to be a NOOB. And a stupid one at that. I'm not angry, I'm trying to save your life fella. Do not think my words are in anger. I am telling you the truth as I see it. I was once a stupid noob myself. Now I'm just old and crotchedy. Maybe a tad too mean too. Please, please ...reconsider and re-read my words. I am not trying to be aggro, but trying to convey the seriousness of the situation. YOU need to re-evaluate yourself, your mentality, if you wish to live. Please, I'm begging you. .... please.
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jakedatc
Jun 4, 2007, 9:02 PM
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Rob.. try the Cinch with a rope smaller than 10mm sometime.. you'll see the lower is not difficult at all. with my 9.5 i don't have to put a lot of pressure on the handle at all. reverso for multi pitch trad... not going to carry a belay device that can't rap also. Not sure why you'd at least use the Cinch instead since it's like whatever % lighter.
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Jun 4, 2007, 9:12 PM)
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marc801
Jun 4, 2007, 9:13 PM
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climbinwv wrote: Actually, she used the atc fine for over a year....everybody makes mistakes...fortunately this one wasn't fatal. I agree that properly training someone how to use a device is essential to safety. That is why I am grateful to Trango for all the information available on their website. Apparently you haven't read everything on the Trango site, specifically the Cinch FAQ which says: Q: Is it a good idea to have beginners belay me with a Cinch? A: No. It takes just as much, or more, skill to belay with a Cinch as it does with a traditional belay device like the Pyramid. In the hands on an inexperienced or inattentive belayer, the Cinch, as with any belay device, can be deadly. If a partner dropped me 25' and justified it with "Hey, everyone makes mistakes", I would never climb with them again. Ever. I would never let any of my friends climb with them, either. Ever.
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billcoe_
Jun 4, 2007, 9:16 PM
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Marc801: Nice call, I'd tie in any day with you.
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dreamy
Jun 4, 2007, 9:20 PM
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The Cinch is good for your sexual life I weight 60 (plus) pounds more than my wife. She loves her Cinch so much (somehow it’s hers, and not mine or ours) that now I’m having problems trying to convince her to belay me with a Reverso (the Gri is out of question because its to big for her –I feel the same when climbing trad-). Now our marriage is going better because I don’t have to yell her “Give me more rope, you…”, every time I’m leading. Thanks Malday
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maldaly
Jun 4, 2007, 9:25 PM
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Can I use you guys in our next ad?
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dreamy
Jun 4, 2007, 9:36 PM
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It will be a honor.
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caughtinside
Jun 4, 2007, 9:38 PM
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Trango Cinch--getting more married guys laid since 2004. I like it!
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climb_plastic
Jun 5, 2007, 6:37 AM
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billcoe_ wrote: climbinwv wrote: Actually, she used the atc fine for over a year....everybody makes mistakes...fortunately this one wasn't fatal. I agree that properly training someone how to use a device is essential to safety. That is why I am grateful to Trango for all the information available on their website. Why are you so angry? Everybody makes mistakes? Everybody makes mistakes? I call bullshit in a big way. Everybody doesn't make mistakes. Your wife did and it was your fault as much as hers. You got lucky and survived your stupidity and ignorance but have not adjusted your attitude. It's a dangerous game, and people with your mentality tend to be the ones that get picked off needlessly. F* dude, scraping up bodies off the deck upsets me. It's one thing if someone is hanging it out and going for a FA on loose rocks, hey: shit happens. But to say "everybody makes mistakes" in a sport where a single mistake can will and does cost you your life only makes you out to be a NOOB. And a stupid one at that. I'm not angry, I'm trying to save your life fella. Do not think my words are in anger. I am telling you the truth as I see it. I was once a stupid noob myself. Now I'm just old and crotchedy. Maybe a tad too mean too. Please, please ...reconsider and re-read my words. I am not trying to be aggro, but trying to convey the seriousness of the situation. YOU need to re-evaluate yourself, your mentality, if you wish to live. Please, I'm begging you. .... please. Not everyone makes mistakes.... But EVERYONE has a chance of making a mistake any time you're climbing. If you don't think so then that's dangerous. So dropping someone can happen to anyone. It's called RISK and we all take it when we climb. You just do things as best as you can to MINIMIZE that risk. Watch people belay and you'll see that some belayers are better than others (through practice, experience or just better coordination) and so they have less chance of dropping someone....but EVERYONE has a chance of dropping someone when belaying. Don't get me wrong, I think my chances of dropping someone on an atc are very very very low so I feel comfortable using it....but if something unexpected still happens (it's called an accident or sh_t) then I hope I'm using an autolocker...to further minimize that risk. Just like if i ever get into a car I hope it has airbags...but if you're a good driver then you don't need them right? To answer the original posters question....I would be using a grigri over a cinch...but i'm a single guy. My next wife can use whatever she's comfortable with...based one what i've read in this thread I hope it's a cinch.
(This post was edited by climb_plastic on Jun 5, 2007, 6:44 AM)
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scuclimber
Jun 5, 2007, 8:16 AM
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climb_plastic wrote: Just like if i ever get into a car I hope it has airbags...but if you're a good driver then you don't need them right? Not really. There are far fewer totally random things in climbing than there are stupid, drunk, distracted, otherwise impaired, or just plain bad drivers on the road. Rockfall and lightning strikes, the latter being much rarer than shitty drivers, are the only two really random things outside of one's control in climbing of which I can think off the top of my head (ok, there are more, but again, for the sake of argument). Choice of partner is within one's control. While I agree with the tone of your post, I didn't think that was a very applicable analogy. Cheers.
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percious
Jun 5, 2007, 11:29 AM
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I've been using a cinch for well over a year now. I'm a cinch proponent. The device is not without it's imperfections, but it feeds and hauls in rope like a dream. I refuse to use a gri-gri because it is so much work pulling slack in. The cinch works fine on lower once you learn where the "sweet spot" is on the handle. I think it is more versatile than the gri gri because you can solo with it but I would not recommend this activity. If I do find myself in a solo-type situation, I back it up with a prussik. -percious
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ja1484
Jun 5, 2007, 12:05 PM
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"I forgot to bring my second water bottle" is a mistake. "I nearly killed you by agreeing to perform a skill I'm not competent at" is kind of in another realm. I'd consider it with a bit more gravity than "a mistake" Look man, I know she's your wife, but don't kid yourself about her abilities just because you're married to her. If you really care about her, train and practice her belay technique until there's no doubt - that way, she doesn't unexpectedly end up without a husband one day. For's God's sake...
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climbinwv
Jun 5, 2007, 12:19 PM
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Bilcoe, You are totally right man. I sat home last night realizing that if her mistake had been on a multi-pitch route where i was hundreds of feet of the deck instead of a 40ft. toprope climb @ my local crag we wouldn't be having this conversation. I was taught to climb at a very young age by my father who climbed for years all over the country. The one thing he always preached to me was "Safety, Safety, Safety!!!!". I beleive that my approach to starting my wife of slow/small and teaching her as we go was wrong. I also beleive that you are right that it is proper instruction, not the device you are using that keeps you out of harms way. I understand that you aren't getting angry @ me per say, but more my mentality. I admit I was wrong. I have addopted a new attitude where I will make sure that whomever I am climbing with is 100% safe and I am totally confident in their skills and abilities. I thank you for your time and advice in this matter.
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climbinwv
Jun 5, 2007, 12:24 PM
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Marc, actually if ya read, she dropped me with an atc. She cried for days and almost gave up climbing completely. I wasn't hurt at all as the landing zone was flat/kinda soft. Just remember, while my wife is climbing with me, yours is @ bars pickin up frat guys and bangin them in your bed while your @ your crag....
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svilnit
Jun 5, 2007, 12:31 PM
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climbinwv wrote: Marc, actually if ya read, she dropped me with an atc. She cried for days and almost gave up climbing completely. I wasn't hurt at all as the landing zone was flat/kinda soft. Just remember, while my wife is climbing with me, yours is @ bars pickin up frat guys and bangin them in your bed while your @ your crag.... OUCH
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