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zealotnoob
Jun 15, 2007, 6:24 PM
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My girlfriend has expressed a little interest in climbing, which, of course, has me really excited. If she would only bite as hard as I, she could be a keeper... But there is the possibility that she's only expressing interest to placate me. Regardless, I intend to find out this weekend on a day trip to the Gunks. My intent is to take her up one of the easy classics--5.3 or 5.4--all the way to the top. She shouldn't be too challenged physically, but, mentally, she'll either have to embrace it (at which point she'll become hooked) or she'll freeze and swear it off (and I'll know where she stands). What I seek from the RC community:
What are other good ways to plant the climbing seed?
Special considerations so as to not scare her off?
What would be an ideal route? (I'm thinking Yum Yum presently)
(This post was edited by zealotnoob on Jun 18, 2007, 9:33 PM)
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jedasmith
Jun 15, 2007, 6:27 PM
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Betty!!
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bobruef
Jun 15, 2007, 6:39 PM
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I've had much experience in this regard, but little luck. My advice is to eeeeaaaase her into it. Be a facilitator rather than a pusher.
In reply to: But there is the possibility that she's only expressing interest to placate me.
This was definately the case w/ my wife. It took a looooong time for me to figure that one out. I mean, why would anyone in their right mind not like climbing?!
As far as routes at the Gunks, my experience is pretty limited, but Horseman (5.5) comes to mind. Depending on her experience, splitting it into two pitches may be a good idea. Short approach, pretty vertical, clean climbing for the grade, and just the right ammount of exposure for her. I'm not really qualified to comment on any of this though, as I've been unsuccesful with getting my wife into climbing. So, take my advice for what it's worth.
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taino
Jun 15, 2007, 6:40 PM
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Seconded.
Yum Yum Yab Yum has a traverse on the last pitch that isn't entirely comfortable to a new climber; I've heard (second hand) of a new climber that couldn't make the traverse moves, and the pendulum she took was a thing of wonder.
On Betty, you can communicate easily with your second at every stage, you can walk off instead of rappel, there are comfortable belay ledges, etc. I would break it up into three pitches - to the first pitch belay ledge, up the chimney to the next large ledge, then up the rest of the way.
T
(This post was edited by taino on Jun 15, 2007, 6:43 PM)
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zealotnoob
Jun 15, 2007, 6:46 PM
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That sounds perfect.
Does that mean you've given up Bobreuf?
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reg
Jun 15, 2007, 6:47 PM
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"Special considerations so as to not scare her off? "
is the key - i wouldn't hang her on the side of a couple hundred foot wall on her first trip. better to take her to the 40 footer and ease her higher as she gains composure and confidence with being at height.
edit: remember she has to learn to trust the gear, you and get used to the height - it's all going to scare the crap outta her. but then again my wife stood up tall on a narrow ledge with 100's of feet drop off on either side her first time out - i was crawlin for gods sake.
(This post was edited by reg on Jun 15, 2007, 6:51 PM)
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granite_grrl
Jun 15, 2007, 6:49 PM
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taino wrote: Seconded. Yum Yum Yab Yum has a traverse on the last pitch that isn't entirely comfortable to a new climber; I've heard (second hand) of a new climber that couldn't make the traverse moves, and the pendulum she took was a thing of wonder. T
Betty would be an excellent climb, but it would be nice to get her on a nice short pitch so you can watch her and give her support as she climbs. Maybe even set up a sling shot so you have a better view of her as she heads up. Sling shot might also be better if she might be scared of rappeling.
If she does well on the short climb, then get her on something longer, then maybe an easy multipitch.
On the first climb don't get on sometime with a lot of exposure, long rappels, tricky moves or crack climbing, overhung or having roofs. Make her feel as comfortable as you can. The last thing you want is to spook her 'cause she might not ever come back after that.
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olderic
Jun 15, 2007, 6:57 PM
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Has she climbed before or not? What is her (if any) experience level? If she has never climbed before - that's the way it sounds - and you start her with a multi pitch climb at the Gunks (or anywhere) I can perdict the outcome.
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taino
Jun 15, 2007, 7:11 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: taino wrote: Seconded. Yum Yum Yab Yum has a traverse on the last pitch that isn't entirely comfortable to a new climber; I've heard (second hand) of a new climber that couldn't make the traverse moves, and the pendulum she took was a thing of wonder. T Betty would be an excellent climb, but it would be nice to get her on a nice short pitch so you can watch her and give her support as she climbs. Maybe even set up a sling shot so you have a better view of her as she heads up. Sling shot might also be better if she might be scared of rappeling. If she does well on the short climb, then get her on something longer, then maybe an easy multipitch. On the first climb don't get on sometime with a lot of exposure, long rappels, tricky moves or crack climbing, overhung or having roofs. Make her feel as comfortable as you can. The last thing you want is to spook her 'cause she might not ever come back after that.
Good suggestion. In that light, the first pitch of Hawk (5.3) or the first pitch of Twin Oaks (5.3) might be a good bet.
Or, take her to Peterskill - nothing but singlepitch stuff, there.
T
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rgold
Jun 15, 2007, 7:30 PM
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If you're looking for a gym partner, put her on a 40 foot wall with a top-rope where you can bombard her with non-stop beta, inundate her with extravagant praise out of all proportion to anything she's actually doing, and teach her the joy of hang-dogging from the very first step.
Seems to me that people are recommending you do everything possible to hide what climbing is about in the hope that she'll like it.
The Gunks is the perfect place to introduce people to climbing outdoors. You have some height and exposure at marvelously low difficulty levels. If you don't get a first-time thrill from an easy Gunks climb, then climbin' ain't fer you hon, pure and simple.
I think that you and many of your respondants are already thinking about too high a grade too. It's the experience, not the difficulty level, that counts.
Betty is OK. I'd put it pretty far down the list. I think Three Pines and Northern Pillar are much better if the guided hordes are not plastered on them. Probably require a weekday. Minty is good if she has the physical ability to get past the first ten feet. Of course you belay right there on top of the block. Casa Emilio is an excellent option for a crowded weekend; you might end up with the whole wall to yourselves. Beginner's Delight is the best, but not perhaps for the very time out unless she's really gung-ho and you know exactly where the route goes and how to arrange the protection for her.
A few additional things to consider:
1. If you wouldn't be pretty comfortable soloing a climb, you probably shouldn't be taking a rank beginner up it. She shouldn't think for even a second that she might have to catch you falling.
2. No rappelling the first time out.
3. Short pitches. Make sure it is always easy to communicate, and make sure you can always see her.
4. Any gear you place has to be super easy to remove. Even so, have a good strategy for going back for it yourself. Don't pressure her to get out something she's struggling with.
5. Consider making a climb to the top and the walk back the whole day (as far as climbing goes). Let her process the experience.
6. If she likes it, consider hiring a guide for the next session. Teaching an SO to climb can be a bit like teaching them to drive. The experience may be somewhat different than the fantasy.
7. Speaking of the fantasy, it isn't at all unlikely that one of you will end up being much better than the other. Is either outcome OK?
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paulraphael
Jun 15, 2007, 7:48 PM
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I've been through this a few times, and I think it's best to ease people into the gunks experience. I've seen beginners freak out on easy classics because of the exposure. Also, some of the easier routes can feel pretty awkward in places if you don't find the right sequence ... and beginners often don't.
I start people out on toprope, just to get them used to it. Then i'll them follow a single pitch and get used to dealing with the gear. How much time before a multipitch depends on their comfort level, but I'd never start someone out on a gunks multipitch.
Just my experience (and I've had to bail from a couple of 5.3s because of girlfriend panic attacks ... not fun).
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shakylegs
Jun 15, 2007, 8:08 PM
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I'd suggest Gelsa. It's a great climb, with nothing strenous, and good holds everywhere.
A few years ago, I can't recall what climb I'm on, but it's a few routes to the right of Shockley's Ceiling. Start hearing some arguing, but not thinking too much about it. I figured someone was having a bit of trouble getting over the roof, and was simply arguing and yelling out of frustration and to psyche herself up.
Unfortunately, no.
Turns out some dude decided he was going to show his little hothouse flower how cool climbing could be, and proceeded to introduce said sport by starting her out on Shockley's. So, she's bitching and complaining, he's going down the route of "honey, it's easy, all you have to do is reach up a bit, bring your right foot high up and to the right, etc." The situation is quickly degrading until, finally, this ear-piercing scream of
"I'M TRYING, YOU MOTHERFUCKER!!!" rang out.
It was such a classic moment. I doubt the relationship lasted much longer.
So, um, don't put her on Shockley's.
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wormly81
Jun 15, 2007, 8:10 PM
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I decided upon Jackie. Great climb with the gunks 5.5 roof experience. You can watch the second on the entire pitch and theres a bolted anchor for ease of cleaning. Then you can top off the cliff in the dihedral and walk off the uberfall (which was important to me I didnt want to deal with rapelling on her first climb).
Second climb... Yum Yum Yab Yum. Although the communication can be a little difficult on the traversing last pitch, its well worth it. No problem plugging tons of gear on the traverse.
Exposure is the gift that keeps on giving.
(This post was edited by wormly81 on Jun 15, 2007, 8:13 PM)
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rgold
Jun 15, 2007, 8:21 PM
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Paul, you may be right; perhaps I'm just too oldskool.
I can say, in defense of my apparently crusty attitude, that, while in grad school and a bit beyond, I guided for several years. I always took people up a Gunks multipitch for their first experience. (And I never set up a toprope, not even once.) Perhaps over that time I took a fifty total beginners up climbs. Only one, a very out-of-shape gentleman, insisted on going down. Everyone else made it to the top, and almost everyone came back for some more.
Certainly, there were times when some TLC was needed; you have to be resourceful, flexible, willing to think a bit outside the box, and genuinely patient. And I really had no vested interest in my clients becoming climbers; I wanted to show them what it was about and if they liked it, I would help them get a start.
Quite a few went on to active independent climbing careers, in some cases at impressive levels of achievement.
Of course, all this might prove is that I had a good selection method, and that if people need to be coaxed into the sport, other approaches are needed.
Carry on...
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bobruef
Jun 15, 2007, 8:22 PM
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shakylegs wrote: ... The situation is quickly degrading until, finally, this ear-piercing scream of "I'M TRYING, YOU MOTHERFUCKER!!!" rang out. It was such a classic moment. I doubt the relationship lasted much longer. So, um, don't put her on Shockley's.
 ROTFLMAO
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tigerlilly
Jun 15, 2007, 9:00 PM
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bobruef wrote: I've had much experience in this regard, but little luck. My advice is to eeeeaaaase her into it. Be a facilitator rather than a pusher. This was definately the case w/ my wife. It took a looooong time for me to figure that one out. I mean, why would anyone in their right mind not like climbing?! As far as routes at the Gunks, my experience is pretty limited, but Horseman (5.5) comes to mind. Depending on her experience, splitting it into two pitches may be a good idea. Short approach, pretty vertical, clean climbing for the grade, and just the right ammount of exposure for her. I'm not really qualified to comment on any of this though, as I've been unsuccesful with getting my wife into climbing. So, take my advice for what it's worth.
If you suggest Horseman, or any 5.5 with exposure, as a start, this could explain your lack of luck. Take it from a woman - start easier than that if she has never climbed.
Women think differently from men! I swear we are born in possession of a caution gene which men don't have!
Personally, I'd start on a single pitch TR, unless she explicitly says she has no fear of heights. Multipitch can be intimidating. Start on something hard and you could turn her off forever. If you must do multipitch, maybe Three Pines. The OP may want to test her real desire to climb, but since when did you take a test without taking class first? Start easy and fun, and work your way up from there. She needs to learn how to move in the vertical world and get used to it before tackling the more intimidating aspects. Walk first, then run.
Kathy
(This post was edited by tigerlilly on Jun 15, 2007, 9:31 PM)
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eastvillage
Jun 15, 2007, 9:01 PM
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Jackie, interesting choice. That roof could be hard for someone with no experience, but you could easily lay on the tension. Of course you never mentioned how athletic your GF is.
I like Gelsa in the Nears for this. The exposure on the last pitch is fantatsic, coupled with the huge buckets. Communication could be an issue. I'm with rgold, skip the top roping, welcome to the Gunks!
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jsh
Jun 15, 2007, 9:27 PM
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I can't tell you exactly what route will be best for her. I can't tell you whether one pitch, or topping out, is best. I can't tell you how to make her bite as hard as you.
Only one person can: your girlfriend.
Regardless of what you do: LISTEN TO HER. Let her tell you when she's had enough, or if she wants more. Let her tell you whether it's too hard right now (and figure out how you're going to deal with that, wherever it happens). Don't insist that she experience or embrace things the same way you do.
And don't look at it as a test. Or if you insist, remember that you're being tested as well.
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gunkjunkie
Jun 15, 2007, 9:42 PM
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Jackie seems like a good idea. You might think of climbing in a group of three. This way she can concentrate on the climbing and clipping her trailing rope and not having to clean gear. Also this makes rapping safer if you have to or chose to do this. One can go down and put her on a fireman's belay and the other can make sure her rap set up is done properly and coach her through the rap. You may want to try one of the easier one pitch routes at the uber fall first just to get her used to climbing and clipping the rope or cleaning gear.
Deirdre
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jman
Jun 15, 2007, 10:35 PM
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A good one I think would be Bunny. If she feels good on that one then move over to Horseman (would recommend doing it in two pitches that way you can keep an eye on her and she can see you).
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builttospill
Jun 16, 2007, 12:07 AM
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this may be just me, but I've had some limited success taking girlfriends and friends that are girls climbing.
Most of the time, it doesn't work out that well.
If I were to do it again, I'd consider doing it rgold style, something multipitch, something fun, something straightforward, etc.
Most important: something EASY.
Hey, 5.4 may be easy for you. You may remember it as being easy even when you started. But for a girl who is shorter, or less athletic, or more scared, or whatever, it can be damn hard.
I lowered my girlfriend off a 5.4 before the crux moves on her first time out. It was the easiest climb in the area, so there wasn't much choice.
But if I had access to stuff like 5.1 to 5.3 that aren't grovels in the dirt and chimneys, I'd have taken her there. I suggest you do the same.
Who likes failing on a climb? Well, I don't, not much at least. Who likes picking up a new activity and sucking at it immediately? A bit of failure is fine, but complete abject failure is a recipe for making her hate climbing. Give her a taste of success and she'll be more likely to enjoy it. A top-out, in this regard, is gold.
And like someone else said, listen to her. If she says she's done, let her down. She may not show it, but she'll probably be a little upset with herself (as in the case of the 4 girls I have introduced to climbing). Try to take her someplace way easier, but if she declines, don't push it. Ask casually another time.
Good luck. If she doesn't like it, it's really not the end of the world, either.
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climbsomething
Jun 16, 2007, 12:34 AM
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This thread tickles me.
Now, I admitted to learning how to climb so I could impress a boy. It's not proud but I can't lie, and I know it's common.
But if said boy went to the internet before he took me out (on a 2-pitch, chimney to slab with a hanging belay and a rappel, BTW) and used a phrase like "gf test" I think I would have kicked him in the jimmy.
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flowin
Jun 16, 2007, 12:59 AM
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i say keep it to a single pitch for her first time, ease her into it. I will be there bouldering so i will look for the frozen girl on the rock!
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