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tradrenn
Jun 28, 2007, 2:34 AM
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sbaclimber
Jun 28, 2007, 2:42 AM
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Okay, I'll play along, even though this isn't even a valid question 
tradrenn wrote: .3 C4 = 5.12+ (unless there are face holds) .4 C4 = 5.11/12 (finger tips, hard for feet) .5 C4 = 5.10 (good fingers) .75 C4 = 5.11 (crap fingers, ring-locks?) 1 C4 = 5.11 (small hands.....or really bad fingers) 2 C4 = 5.7/8 (beautiful hands w/ solid feet) 3 C4 = 5.8 (hands to fist, feet still good) 4 C4 = 5.10 (fist to offwidth, marginal feet) 5/6 C4 = 5.offwidth!
1) the crack must basically be a consistent vertical (thanks, Froggy) splitter. Needing just one .75 for a few metres of crack in the middle of a face climb is not the same as needing 10 in a row on some IC splitter. If there are any face holds around the smaller sizes, the grade may well drop drastically.
2) this is assuming you have a "normal" hand size. e.g. #0.5 is "fingers" and #2 is "hand" crack size.
Besides the fact that protection sizes have absolutely nothing to do with the difficulty of a climb, there are simply too many variables to consider before even asking, "what grade would a 4cm wide crack have?".
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Jun 28, 2007, 2:50 AM)
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a.frosch
Jun 28, 2007, 2:45 AM
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I think there are too many factors to do that. for instance, it depends so much on what kind of rock it is, how steep it is, other features, etc. For instance, a gold camalot crack might be an easy romp with perfect hand jams but tilt it back 20 degrees and it's a pumpfest. Similarly, a heinous fingertip crack with many usable features outside the crack might be easier than the size would suggest.
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krosbakken
Jun 28, 2007, 2:52 AM
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a.frosch wrote: I think there are too many factors to do that. for instance, it depends so much on what kind of rock it is, how steep it is, other features, etc. For instance, a gold camalot crack might be an easy romp with perfect hand jams but tilt it back 20 degrees and it's a pumpfest. Similarly, a heinous fingertip crack with many usable features outside the crack might be easier than the size would suggest.
I agree 100% with this.
And I have climbed a 5.8 crack that took a BD C4 .5, 1, 2, and 3. Also, hexes and nuts.
So like a.frosch said, "there are too many factors."
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cdrisc
Jun 28, 2007, 2:53 AM
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hook line and sinker
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gunksgoer
Jun 28, 2007, 3:00 AM
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Troll.
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el_layclimber
Jun 28, 2007, 3:12 AM
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Well, anything above 5.9 is impossible (it would be a 6.0 right?), so if you just barely sent it, it's 5.9. If it was easier than that, grade accordingly. If harder, it's an aid climb.
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112
Jun 28, 2007, 3:17 AM
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tradrenn wrote: Question: How is a size of BD C4 Camalot relative to how hard the route is ? Explanation If I was to lead a route that is protected by #.75 Camalot, what rating can I expect ? If I was to lead a route that is protected by #2 Camalot, what rating can I expect ? If I was to lead a route that is protected by #3 Camalot, what rating can I expect ?
If your climbing on BD's then you prolly only climb 5.6.
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medicus
Jun 28, 2007, 3:35 AM
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tradrenn wrote: Question: How is a size of BD C4 Camalot relative to how hard the route is ? Explanation If I was to lead a route that is protected by #.75 Camalot, what rating can I expect ? If I was to lead a route that is protected by #2 Camalot, what rating can I expect ? If I was to lead a route that is protected by #3 Camalot, what rating can I expect ? I would like to end up with a little chart that would look something like: .3 C4 = 5. ? .4 C4 = 5. ? .5 C4 = 5.? .75 C4 = 5. ? 1 C4 = 5. ? 2 C4 = 5. ? 3 C4 = 5. ? I'm getting into crack climbing this days and I need to know which size protects the easiest crack climbs, once I'm done with that size/difficulty I would like to move to next one up. I think the chart could be useful. Please replace question marks with correct rating. Thanks in advance for all your help.
After you decide to stop climbing 5.8 and move on to the next grade, will you send me just a few of your C4 #3's/#2's. Thanks!!!
Also, we should start a chart for aliens too and the likelihood of surviving any given fall on that perfect splitter that takes whatever size. I would like to see if the color of CCH aliens has anything to do with if they spontaneously explode when you fall on them or not. I have my theories that it might depend on the day light too... so in the middle of the day when the skies are blue and the sun is not directly shining on the alien, the blue one will spontaneously explode. When the sun is shining directly on them in the middle of the day, the yellow will go, and during the sunset depending, the violet, red, orange and maybe even green if there is a storm off to the east will be more prone to go.
So if this is true, should we rate routes dangerous level according to what time of day it is?
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ja1484
Jun 28, 2007, 3:52 AM
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medicus wrote: Also, we should start a chart for aliens too and the likelihood of surviving any given fall on that perfect splitter that takes whatever size. I would like to see if the color of CCH aliens has anything to do with if they spontaneously explode when you fall on them or not. I have my theories that it might depend on the day light too... so in the middle of the day when the skies are blue and the sun is not directly shining on the alien, the blue one will spontaneously explode. When the sun is shining directly on them in the middle of the day, the yellow will go, and during the sunset depending, the violet, red, orange and maybe even green if there is a storm off to the east will be more prone to go. So if this is true, should we rate routes dangerous level according to what time of day it is?
I went to REI the other day and looked at their full stock of Aliens through a prism.
I'm banned from that store now 
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medicus
Jun 28, 2007, 3:57 AM
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ja1484 wrote: medicus wrote: Also, we should start a chart for aliens too and the likelihood of surviving any given fall on that perfect splitter that takes whatever size. I would like to see if the color of CCH aliens has anything to do with if they spontaneously explode when you fall on them or not. I have my theories that it might depend on the day light too... so in the middle of the day when the skies are blue and the sun is not directly shining on the alien, the blue one will spontaneously explode. When the sun is shining directly on them in the middle of the day, the yellow will go, and during the sunset depending, the violet, red, orange and maybe even green if there is a storm off to the east will be more prone to go. So if this is true, should we rate routes dangerous level according to what time of day it is? I went to REI the other day and looked at their full stock of Aliens through a prism. I'm banned from that store now
Oooo that makes me wonder... if the belayer is looking at the alien through different colored glasses... will that affect it? When you looked at them through a prism, did any of the heads fall off while the alien was sitting on the shelf?
(This post was edited by medicus on Jun 28, 2007, 3:58 AM)
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chalkfree
Jun 28, 2007, 4:05 AM
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Fun quote I think I'll share with the alien bashers.
Me: Wow, I love it when you put one of these little cams in and you know it's only coming out in pieces.
Mike: That's an alien? I thought it was a c3.
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bent_gate
Jun 28, 2007, 4:06 AM
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I'll give it a shot, but I am only able to apply how it would work on the Vermin Scale:
.3 C4 = V9
.4 C4 = V6
.5 C4 = V4
.75 C4= V3
1 C4 = V2
2 C4 = V1
3 C4 = V0
Use 'em on any of these problems, and you should be set.
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cchas
Jun 28, 2007, 2:36 PM
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And if we are using this scale, would Astroman just be a hi-ball V2, and would that be a 2 or 3 pad problem? Its like...
"dude cruiser problem with a gnarley topout....."
(This post was edited by cchas on Jun 28, 2007, 2:38 PM)
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granite_grrl
Jun 28, 2007, 2:48 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: Two caveats though: 1) the crack must basically be a consistent vertical (thanks, Froggy) splitter. Needing just one .75 for a few metres of crack in the middle of a face climb is not the same as needing 10 in a row on some IC splitter. If there are any face holds around the smaller sizes, the grade may well drop drastically. 2) this is assuming you have a "normal" hand size. e.g. #0.5 is "fingers" and #2 is "hand" crack size.
It totally depends on your hand size. A good finger crack for me would be tips for my husband (note: I have man sized hands for a woman but much more slender....my husband has paddle hands).
Most that the size of the crack, a good jam is a good jam. Those good jams that narrow down at the bottom and often accomidate many hand/finger sizes and are super solid.
So the difficulty of the climb includes rock angle, stances, length of climb and quality and ease of jams.
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camhead
Jun 28, 2007, 3:05 PM
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well, seeing as how I only climb bolted cracks, this whole thread makes no sense. and a green camalot corner is just as easy to layback as a 2 camalot corner, so I'm not sure what all you gumbies are talking about.
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marc801
Jun 28, 2007, 4:18 PM
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If not a troll, this is one of the most mind bogglingly inane questions on rc.noob evar!
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medicus
Jun 28, 2007, 4:28 PM
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marc801 wrote: If not a troll, this is one of the most mind bogglingly inane questions on rc.noob evar!
This comment is not too far away from the most "inane" statements "evar".
(This post was edited by medicus on Jun 28, 2007, 4:29 PM)
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deschamps1000
Jun 28, 2007, 6:44 PM
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Assuming that you are...
1. Climbing splitter vertical cracks with no face holds.
2. Have average hands for a male
Indian Creek grades tend to corrilate to the following...
.3 5.12/5.13
.4 5.12/5.13
.5 5.12/5.13
.75 5.11+
1 5.11
2 5.10-
3 5.10+
Of course, this doesn't apply for 99% of the trad climbs in the US!
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tradrenn
Jul 4, 2007, 11:44 PM
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Thank you to all those that help.
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ryanb
Jul 5, 2007, 12:47 AM
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Sounds about right, subtract one number grade or so for the rest of the country where routes have cruxes.
What about for nuts?
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deschamps1000
Jul 5, 2007, 3:29 PM
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Ha, ha. Let me go lead IC splitters on nuts and I'll let you know.
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dynosore
Jul 5, 2007, 4:00 PM
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The Alien chart looks just like this too, but add an X rating to everything~
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