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LostinMaine
Jul 13, 2007, 8:25 PM
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Assume you climbed up to a thin horizontal crack that was at least 4" deep and was slightly thinner at the lip than at the back. Assume that said crack would accept a large nut, small hex, small cam, or small tricam equally well. Now assume that the route is well within your climbing abilities, you are not pumped, and by clipping long you can eliminate rope tension that would otherwise cause walking.
Which of the above are you more likely to place? Why?
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shimanilami
Jul 13, 2007, 8:31 PM
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I would slam a BFP in that bad boy and call it good.
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petsfed
Jul 13, 2007, 8:34 PM
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Tricam. One of two pieces I really trust (all else being equal) in a horizontal, and the cam might be useful later.
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summerprophet
Jul 13, 2007, 8:36 PM
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I would place the one that fits best.
If I had traversed the whole length of the crack I may have set all of the above.
You are trying to get a defined answer from an abstract question. It is not the crack you are looking at for protection, it is the small variations within the crack.
Assume you wanted to plug something into a three plug electrical socket. Assume that said socket could accept a type A, Type C and a two prong electrical plug equally well.
Which of the above are you more likely to plug? Why?
See where i am getting here? The answer may be obvious to someone at the location, but to someone who is grasping the concept third hand, it makes no sense.
<Plug types made up, I don't know crap about wiring>
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medicus
Jul 13, 2007, 8:43 PM
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summerprophet wrote: <Plug types made up, I don't know crap about wiring>
Glad you cleared that up. I was going to flame you for it.
j/k.
Um to the OP, given what you have asked, I wouldn't reach for the cam first. I think that's about all that I could say based on what you have given.
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LostinMaine
Jul 13, 2007, 8:48 PM
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summerprophet wrote: You are trying to get a defined answer from an abstract question. It is not the crack you are looking at for protection, it is the small variations within the crack.
Agreed. However, let's assume that all types of protection have their ideal niche in which to fit. So, to use your example, you just came upon the mega outlet which is suited for all plug types, and luckily you have each type of plug. All types of plugs could be used, but most people have a preference for one over the others.
For example, all things being equal, I would grab the hex or the tricam. I trust passive over active pro when hey both fit well. I am always sketched about placing wired nuts in a horizontal. I also like that hexes tend have a greater surface area than nuts at a given crack size. And tricams are just amazing in horizontals.
I'm only trying to determine others' preferences and reasons.
edited for spelling.
(This post was edited by LostinMaine on Jul 13, 2007, 8:50 PM)
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summerprophet
Jul 13, 2007, 8:58 PM
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Allright, given that situation, I would likely place a hex. Why you ask?
The answer is twofold, first of all, my Tricam is still sitting in the store, unpurchased, don't get me wrong, I love tricams, but whenever I feel the need to place one, there is usually one allready there, stuck. Secondly, I would place the hex to get that freaking cowbell off of my rack and have my partner deal with the incessant noise. I prefer to climb without souding like a chrismas tree in the wind. I suppose the theory behind hexes is that it is like parenting, after a while you don't notice the constant chatter.
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jaybro
Jul 14, 2007, 7:07 AM
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WTF is a BFP?
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trebork2
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Jul 15, 2007, 2:06 PM
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I'd be placing a tri-cam or a cam. Tri Cams are pretty much the sh*t.
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snakedevil
Jul 15, 2007, 3:32 PM
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tricam
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paulbehee
Jul 15, 2007, 4:02 PM
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jaybro wrote: WTF is a BFP?
Big Fukin Piton?
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md_rock
Jul 17, 2007, 6:29 PM
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tricam then a hex. The rotational (sp?) aspect of both will realy lock either one into the rock.
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cchas
Jul 17, 2007, 7:59 PM
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Send a picture of said crack....
But for me it would be a stopper, since I only carry stoppers and cams. I despise tri-cams and hexes and use them only when ice or mixed climbing (where I'll wail on them with my ice tools). I hate having to dink around with hexes or tri-cams. I can place a good stopper in about 2 seconds, and then just keep going. (but then again I love cracks like Adrenaline in Yosemite, ok truth be known, my favorite cracks look like they've been cut with a laser like Mutiny on the Bounty in Paradsise Forks, but Adrenaline is also damn good))
(This post was edited by cchas on Jul 17, 2007, 8:00 PM)
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livinonasandbar
Jul 17, 2007, 8:34 PM
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"a thin horizontal crack that was at least 4" deep and was slightly thinner at the lip than at the back"
Hmmm, if that crack was vertical I'd fer sure know what to plug it with, eh?. Sounds naughty... 
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cracklover
Jul 17, 2007, 8:39 PM
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Hmm... you said "equally well" If by equally you mean they all fit great, then it's easy: a tricam. A tricam that fits easily and well in a horizontal crack is superb. If the placement was a little more tricky, I'd go with the nut first. Tricams can be finicky, and i don't want to either get it stuck or have it fall out, or fall into a poor position.
GO
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chronicle
Jul 17, 2007, 8:52 PM
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Tricam, then hex.
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Galen
Jul 17, 2007, 9:22 PM
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What will be the the least appropriate for the rest of the climb?
Whatever it is, I'd like to leave it here where it is perfectly placed...
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granite_grrl
Jul 18, 2007, 12:28 PM
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I would place what would be least likley needed further on in the pitch.
If we assume this would be the last piece and I didn't need to save anything (and assuming that all peices are equaly bomber) then I'd put in the quickest to place peice of passive gear (nut, hex or tri-cam).
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c4c
Jul 18, 2007, 1:14 PM
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I would hang off of a cam and drill a hole for a 3"x1/2" ss bolt with my Hilti.
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reg
Jul 18, 2007, 1:30 PM
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tri first, hex, cam - but whatever, i'd put two in opposition.
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dan2see
Jul 18, 2007, 2:33 PM
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First hex, then tricam.
I like my hexes, also I'd save the tricam for later, where the placement might be less certain, hypothetically.
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dan2see
Jul 18, 2007, 2:40 PM
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reg wrote: tri first, hex, cam - but whatever, i'd put two in opposition.
Well! Recently I found a vertical crack belay stance where I placed a hex above, then a nut, then a hex and a tricam opposed, and finally a cam near my feet, for the vertical pull. It started out as mess of slings, then we re-did it with a very neat cordalette. We might have been off-route.
My buddy's next belay was on 3 pitons in another vertical crack. Actually 4, but one wiggled, so he slammed in a hex. But at least we were back on-route.
I don't think we found any horizontal cracks that day, except under blocks that were falling off.
(This post was edited by dan2see on Jul 18, 2007, 2:42 PM)
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LostinMaine
Jul 18, 2007, 3:25 PM
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reg wrote: tri first, hex, cam - but whatever, i'd put two in opposition.
Really?
In the gunks, you'd be opposing nearly every piece...
My reasoning for posting this question was that new rack threads on here tend to be heavy on nuts and cams. Most ignore hexes and tricams, but that has always amazed me. It seems that in horizontals, I am not alone in placing something other than a cam or nut.
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dingus
Jul 18, 2007, 3:30 PM
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LostinMaine wrote: reg wrote: tri first, hex, cam - but whatever, i'd put two in opposition. Really? In the gunks, you'd be opposing nearly every piece... My reasoning for posting this question was that new rack threads on here tend to be heavy on nuts and cams. Most ignore hexes and tricams, but that has always amazed me. It seems that in horizontals, I am not alone in placing something other than a cam or nut.
I own some hexes I bought back in the 70s. Use em for the alpine in RARE occasions. Tricams, I have never purchased one since they were invented. I own a few that I was willing to dig out of cracks but I can't say I've ever used em with bad intent.
But I climb western granite, not eastern metamorphosed sediments. We don't have the sort of horizontals this thread is directed toward. Don't need em frankly.
Having climbed at the Gunks a couple of times I can see their utility for the stated purpose.
Lastly, do you really carry nuts, cams, tricams AND hexes on your rack, all the time????
Cheers
DMT
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epoch
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Jul 18, 2007, 4:27 PM
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Where is this hypothetical crack that you speak of?
Sounds like a good place for oppsed nuts to me.
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