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papounet
Jul 22, 2007, 10:04 PM
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On the point made earlier by rgold and cited by j. Long in his book "climbing anchors 2nd edition"
about "belay anchor are rarely tested in real life",
some accidents may deserve to be "looked into" again.
Catastrophic anchor failures although rare, do happen !
in that particular case, I am inclined to believe it was a ff2 25 feet leader fall onto the belay that cause the 4 pieces anchor to fail causing the death of the 2 experienced climbers.
The climbers obviously thought the anchor good enough. with 4 pieces, I may have thought similarly. yet they did not place a jesus nut.
Reading J. Long on the jesus nut, I thought that he was laying it a bit too thick at times. After this report, I may consider siding with him.
On the simple clove-hitching of the protection with the ropes (2 to each half rope), I am afraid we can't comment.
http://friendsofyosar.org/...12-02_Cathedral.html
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Banks
Jul 23, 2007, 12:31 AM
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papounet wrote: Reading J. Long on the jesus nut, I thought that he was laying it a bit too thick at times. After this report, I may consider siding with him.
Why would you consider J Long to be laying it on a bit thick with regards to placing a Jesus Nut?
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moose_droppings
Jul 23, 2007, 1:26 AM
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Jesus.....I always get a piece of pro in as soon as possible off the belay.
Sometimes it just ain't there though, so you'd better climb with that in mind.
Eye opening report from YOSAR. I didn't realize there were that many cases out there of total anchor failure.
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majid_sabet
Jul 23, 2007, 2:08 AM
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What is a Jesus nut ?
Is this one of these pros where Jesus is holding the loose rock below the nut ?
Edit; forgot to add
I did looked at JL book and IMO, there are some errors in his anchor drawings and how he explains them.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jul 23, 2007, 2:12 AM)
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mattltambor
Jul 23, 2007, 11:20 AM
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A Jesus nut is the first piece of pro you place after the belay - it keeps you from enduring a factor 2 fall should you come off the wall. Just one piece between you and the belay can make all the difference...
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kobaz
Jul 23, 2007, 12:28 PM
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What do you guys think of the practice of clipping one piece of the anchor as your first.
I tend not to do this since pretty often I can place a next piece while still being on the anchor, either that or I can get in another piece within 5 feet of climbing.
If you clip a piece of your anchor as lead pro, and it holds... it did it's job and saved you from a factor 2. If it pulls, then that's quite bad and the strength of your anchor is severely reduced. That first piece should hopefully be bomber.
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kobaz
Jul 23, 2007, 12:30 PM
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In the situation that no pro is available for 25 feet off the anchor. I think one should clip a screamer to the best piece of the anchor as use that as pro.
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moose_droppings
Jul 23, 2007, 1:54 PM
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mattltambor wrote: A Jesus nut is the first piece of pro you place after the belay - it keeps you from enduring a factor 2 fall should you come off the wall. Just one piece between you and the belay can make all the difference...
According to the Yates website, a FF1 and up to just below a FF2 with a redirect will creat more forces on the top pro than FF2 because of the pulley effect. So maybe we ought to think about a screamer on all of our Jesus pieces, or just take the FF2.
(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Jul 23, 2007, 2:56 PM)
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dingus
Jul 23, 2007, 2:38 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: Jesus.....I always get a piece of pro in as soon as possible off the belay. Sometimes it just ain't there though, so you'd better climb with that in mind. Eye opening report from YOSAR. I didn't realize there were that many cases out there of total anchor failure.
Well there's this one. Are you aware of others?
DMT
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moose_droppings
Jul 23, 2007, 2:54 PM
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From that report;
In reply to: At least five other cases of complete anchor failure (protection pulling out-not breaking) have occurred in the Park in the last 30 years.
I do seem to remember another, but can't find the article on it now. But I'd be willing to bet there are a few others.
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dingus
Jul 23, 2007, 2:56 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: From that report; In reply to: At least five other cases of complete anchor failure (protection pulling out-not breaking) have occurred in the Park in the last 30 years. I do seem to remember another, but can't find the article on it now. But I'd be willing to bet there are a few others.
Thanks. So would I.
Cheers
DMT
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jt512
Jul 23, 2007, 4:51 PM
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dingus wrote: moose_droppings wrote: From that report; In reply to: At least five other cases of complete anchor failure (protection pulling out-not breaking) have occurred in the Park in the last 30 years. I do seem to remember another, but can't find the article on it now. But I'd be willing to bet there are a few others. Thanks. So would I. Cheers DMT
The double fatality at Tahquitz a couple years ago that was discussed at length on this site was likely a belay anchor failure.
Jay
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