|
domu888
Jul 30, 2007, 3:21 AM
Post #26 of 39
(2660 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2007
Posts: 111
|
Yeah, I would have to agree with [bill_in_tokyo]. It is just one thing climbers need to be aware of.
Having had another visit to my local climbing store (Lodge again), I found that pretty much anything of the soft metal variety has "haken" appended to the name, including some soft pitons.
I think what alarms me most is that they are still sold new, unlike their western predecessors, and from a very reputable distributor. I decided to start this thread after another climber asked me what was up with all the little rings and I went out and bought some. Until then I had viewed them with suspicion but did not have any actual knowledge of their actual dimensions.
It would be nice to hear from some Japanese climbers and there are a few I know who read these pages.
|
|
|
|
|
bill_in_tokyo
Jul 30, 2007, 4:43 AM
Post #28 of 39
(2632 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 243
|
crackers wrote: What is this, a court case?
Heh. You know us lawyers. After a while that kind of exculpatory language gets to be such a habit that it's hard to turn it off.
Back on topic, I agree with domu888: it's a bit of a shock that they still sell that kind of gear new in shops in Japan. I don't bolt myself, so haven't every shopped specifically to see what I can find up here in Tokyo. Next time I visit a climbing shop, I'll try to remember to take a look.
|
|
|
|
|
domu888
Jul 30, 2007, 5:03 AM
Post #29 of 39
(2626 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2007
Posts: 111
|
I know how the language works too: I also work in the legal profession, though I'm not a lawyer. I know that its been a long day when I start saying "You can have one from the group comprising ..."
I don't regularly bolt stuff myself, though I have been taught how to do it: too much damn work if you have to do so by hand. However, I'm sure if you head down to your local climbing store in Tokyo you will find them.
As I suggested before, the main reason for this post was to raise awareness, but, hopefully, those people, including Japanese climbers, who do read these pages will think twice about placing any new ones.
(This post was edited by domu888 on Jul 31, 2007, 4:23 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
gamba
Jul 30, 2007, 8:06 AM
Post #30 of 39
(2587 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 2
|
I am a Japanese.
We call "Ring Bolt" for the left one, and the right one is "RCC Bolt". As you noticed, it is not enough for shock by fall, so it is common sense among Japanese climbers that you do not rely on these ones. Almost all of these replaced to PETZL or something reliable in sports climbing route, but they are still remained in many Multi-pitch route.
Be carefull, everyones...
|
|
|
|
|
jbak
Jul 30, 2007, 6:52 PM
Post #31 of 39
(2522 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 63
|
There were ring-bolts on a popular climb on Hunchback (Tucson) until recently. No one liked the way they looked but people did the route, took falls, no problems, even though they were 15+ years old. Finally we decided to replace them as a community service. We thought they'd come out pretty easily since they don't go in the rock very far, the rock quality was not so great and the split-shaft expansion mechanism didn't seem that secure. Wrong-o ! They were solid. We finally had to CUT them to get rid of them, they would not pull. I think they were actually fine and would have lasted many more years. They just looked weird.
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Jul 30, 2007, 8:09 PM
Post #32 of 39
(2494 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
I saw a fair amount of those "bolts" while I was climbing in Japan. There were several atop a few climbs in Ogawayama that I didn't clip for anchors. I have pulled a few out simply by pulling on them, and have seen them on a few obscure climbs in the Izu prefecture. I thought of them as novel, and clipped two screamers in series to them, just in case. We had one of the ring-types at our local area that I purposely whipped on... didn't hold worth shit.
Just remember kids, every country has thier own standards. The Japan Free Climbing Association is doing thier best to rid these and other home-made bolts from the crags across Japan. It isn't cheap to do, but they are doing it. Also, you can still find 1/4" button heads on a few sport climbs near Tokyo.
|
|
|
|
|
Brett1234
Jul 31, 2007, 3:14 AM
Post #33 of 39
(2461 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2007
Posts: 22
|
I asked my Japanese climbing instructor friend about this protection. He says they are intended for use in aid climbing and the working load is 300kg in good rock.
Here's part of his response:
"The left side bolt is called Ring Bolt It was used at first Ichinokura Cup Wall climbing. Its idea came from a lid of a kettle. The right side is RCC Bolt RCC is a famous climbing club which name is Rock Climbing Club. It is modified of the ring bolt. These are used at walls which have no riss(German). It was aid climbing gear.
These are stronger than harkens. It might be less than 300K though depends on the quality of the rock. They are used as protection now."
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Jul 31, 2007, 4:15 AM
Post #34 of 39
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
Brett1234 wrote: I asked my Japanese climbing instructor friend about this protection. He says they are intended for use in aid climbing and the working load is 300kg in good rock. Here's part of his response: "The left side bolt is called Ring Bolt It was used at first Ichinokura Cup Wall climbing. Its idea came from a lid of a kettle. The right side is RCC Bolt RCC is a famous climbing club which name is Rock Climbing Club. It is modified of the ring bolt. These are used at walls which have no riss(German). It was aid climbing gear. These are stronger than harkens. It might be less than 300K though depends on the quality of the rock. They are used as protection now."
I will agree with the majority here in that they are sketchy. 
|
|
|
|
|
outdoorclubjapan
Dec 17, 2007, 7:20 PM
Post #35 of 39
(2302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2007
Posts: 2
|
True they are used throughout Japan! I've been here 13 years and always look at them nervously. There are usually several close by so the weight is spread, and I haven't heard of any failures. The end no doubt uses an expanding flange for outward compression to maintain grip.
I would say that on popular rock climbing routes there has been a lot replaced. I see them more on stream climbing and mountaineering routes.
Bill will know they are still used near Tokyo at Hiwada rock in Chichibu.
Andy
Outdoor Club Japan
(This post was edited by outdoorclubjapan on Dec 17, 2007, 7:27 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
bigemf5
Aug 5, 2009, 3:49 AM
Post #36 of 39
(1950 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 1
|
I live in Aomori prefecture in northern Japan. I can verify that these all over our local crag. I just rappelled off the ringed-ones last Saturday. We've used the other ones to back up "regular" climbing bolts on a sport climb. Needless to say, I find this discussion very interesting. I'd always assumed they were OK for top ropes or rappels. I'd never given much thought to how far they went into the rock or how they held. I would never use them as the sole protection against a lead fall.
|
|
|
|
|
technogeekery
Aug 5, 2009, 10:27 AM
Post #37 of 39
(1903 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 146
|
Funny, I just trophied a ring version a couple of weeks ago at Ogawayama, it had completely rusted through and I found the hanger and about a cm of bolt at the base of the wall. Did it fall or was it "pushed"? Hmmmm.
I wouldn't clip these even as psychological pro (false security) and I certainly wouldn't abseil off them, not even a multiple cluster. Horrible things, can't believe they are still selling them. Haven't seen any in the rock that look less than 10-15 years old though.
|
|
|
|
|
johnhenry
Aug 6, 2009, 8:44 AM
Post #38 of 39
(1845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2002
Posts: 202
|
I too will confirm the fact that there are still tons of both ring bolts and RCC bolt in the Kansai and Chugoku-regions.
I have pulled several out with my bare hands and have found several more old ones at the base of crags. Total sketch. Oh, by the way, I have seen a fair number of new ones too! The worst thing is that people seem to recognize they are sketchy and so belays just seem to keep sprouting more and more of them. I have seen ten or more at a stance before.
I hand-drilled one in concrete in like 5 minutes flat with a 99 yen drill bit!
I always carry extra screamers on routes here, because of these and other mank. 
Cheers from Osaka,
john
|
|
|
|
|
|
