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splitterchoss
Aug 7, 2007, 3:58 AM
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Recently a friend and I were having a conversation about climbers and the general selfishness and lack of respect that seems to be so prevalent in the climbing community today. We got on the topic after reading an article in a recent issue of Climbing magazine about a wall at the Red River Gorge that was recently closed because climber’s couldn’t follow the rules. The landowners ran a bed and breakfast type operation, with guiding at the cliffs, and set a few simple rules to keep guest/climber interactions good for both parties: keep dogs on a leash, no swearing, please use the outhouse. So simple a five year old could follow them, but apparently, not a bunch of climbers...
Read the rest of the post here.
(This post was edited by splitterchoss on Aug 7, 2007, 4:25 AM)
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the_leech
Aug 7, 2007, 4:08 AM
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It's the hippies. They're the fucking problem.
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zeke_sf
Aug 7, 2007, 4:19 AM
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splitterchoss wrote: The landowners ran a bed and breakfast type operation, with guiding at the cliffs, and set a few simple rules to keep guest/climber interactions good for both parties: keep dogs on a leash, no swearing, please use the outhouse[...]Read the rest of my rant here.
[rant]
Did a leashless (and, apparently talking) dog say "oh, crap" while squeezing one out on a trail?
I've got enough rants on my hands already, thanks. Much as I'd like to read your butt hurt spew, I'm behind and need to catch up on my diatribes as it is.
"No swearing" is anti-fucking-American.
[/rant over]
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EPiCJAMES
Aug 19, 2007, 12:51 AM
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the_leech wrote: It's the hippies. They're the fucking problem.
you got it all wrong. hippies go about their ways bothering no one. it's the assholes who's heads are too big to fit through a door.
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hoipolloi
Aug 19, 2007, 1:59 AM
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you...are all...fucking...retarded...
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drm1st
Aug 19, 2007, 4:24 AM
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Whenever a few people disrespect anything, it gives a bad rep to the majority. However, I would say that the majority of climbers are pretty respectful and friendly. Also, if i I recall about this article weren't there supposed to be new owners of the area that were going to allow climbers but on a more regulated basis?
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flint
Aug 20, 2007, 3:41 AM
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splitterchoss wrote: Recently a friend and I were having a conversation about climbers and the general selfishness and lack of respect that seems to be so prevalent in the climbing community today. We got on the topic after reading an article in a recent issue of Climbing magazine about a wall at the Red River Gorge that was recently closed because climber’s couldn’t follow the rules. The landowners ran a bed and breakfast type operation, with guiding at the cliffs, and set a few simple rules to keep guest/climber interactions good for both parties: keep dogs on a leash, no swearing, please use the outhouse. So simple a five year old could follow them, but apparently, not a bunch of climbers... Read the rest of the post here.
I am, along with a couple other members of the rc.com community, are regulars in the Red. People there are extremely respectful and in my opinion, and the opinion of many others, one of the best climbing communities in the country. Possibly a reason for the Petzl trip this October.
Unfortunately it only takes one or two people to ruin activities and reputations. The owners of the closed area in the Red were vary tolerant for quite some time. But, unfortunately, there was a straw that broke the camels back and public access was lost. There are many other areas in the Red that are privately owned that hopefully the rules will be respected and will stay open.
On a final note, ignorant people spraying there opinion on a topic they have only read one article about does nothing to help the situation, it only further casts a shadow over the community. Maybe you should look at yourself before judging. I can only imagine you hanging out at the crag, cell phone in hand, talking about others poor form.
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dreday3000
Aug 20, 2007, 1:29 PM
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Do you know what exactly happened that broke the camel's back? I've been going to the Red on and off for seven years now and I never really saw anything disrespectful at torrent.
(This post was edited by dreday3000 on Aug 20, 2007, 1:30 PM)
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drfelatio
Aug 20, 2007, 3:42 PM
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From redriverclimbing.com:
"This past week: The worst impact was on Wednesday. I was showing friends around the property (Our Bridesmaind in our wedding, here husband and here 14 year old daughter). There is a female climb to the left of Paranoia pissing in my yard, under the rock house, in front of all of us. First of all, I put in my yard a Port-o-let, for the climbing community. This female was too damn lazy to walk down the hill and use it. Secondly, she is pissing under the rock house where the rain will not remove her sweet smelling urine (respect for the property). And lastly, I did not need to walk up on this with my friends. What can you say: "Oh that is just a climber, just ignore it" (Respect for owner and family). "
That was posted by the former owner of Torrent Falls. Whether that was the "straw that broke the camel's back" I can't say, but it would surely piss me off enough to close a place down.
The full discussion can be found at:
http://redriverclimbing.com/...e9c8ecab5412ef4cf9af
Torrent has since been bought by someone else. Climbing is still closed there for now.
(This post was edited by drfelatio on Aug 20, 2007, 3:43 PM)
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ebonezercabbage
Aug 20, 2007, 4:27 PM
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I agree. Not because i know for a fact the hippies were disrespectful.....I just HATE hippies.
Win Lose or Draw, i hate hippies.
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carlos_a
Aug 20, 2007, 5:07 PM
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First off, I agree 100% with the original post, and I did read the rest off of the link. I have personally seen climbers not following rules on a regular bases, because the rules are "stupid, retarted, or bullshit." So what?!! Plain and simple...they are the rules no matter how ridiculous they may seem. It's not even a lack of "climber ethics" as much as it is just pure disrespect, laziness, and lack of maturity(and maturity has nothing to do with age). I wasn't even interested in posting a reply, until I read the other immature, and disrespectful reply's. That is what the original post was all about. I hope that if anything, people can at least learn to act accordingly when visiting ALL crags no matter how big or small they are. Just have some respect folks, and have a good time. Thanks.
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Valarc
Aug 20, 2007, 5:22 PM
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It has nothing to do with climbers. People suck. All people. Period. Incomplete sentence.
It's a universal truth of the universe that whenever anything good ever happens, some asshole will come along and screw it up. There are self-centered jackasses in every activity, in every location that has ever seen a human presence. This simple natural law reaches far beyond the tiny climbing community.
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ClusterFock
Aug 22, 2007, 3:01 AM
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It's funny how you can always link the wankes who have no respect with the climbers who love to spray.
Follow the local rules. Climb the routes. Keep your mouth shut and wait untill after you've finished for the day to start spraying.
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livinonasandbar
Aug 22, 2007, 3:05 AM
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I really need to get a life and stop reading this shite...
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drfelatio
Aug 22, 2007, 3:11 AM
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Valarc wrote: It has nothing to do with climbers. People suck. All people. Period. Incomplete sentence. It's a universal truth of the universe that whenever anything good ever happens, some asshole will come along and screw it up. There are self-centered jackasses in every activity, in every location that has ever seen a human presence. This simple natural law reaches far beyond the tiny climbing community.
Yup. It's the Catch-22 of increased popularity: The more popular an activity gets, the more people you get involved in your sport, but that means more assholes will show up too. You could have a million people following the rules, but sure enough, one asshole will screw every one else over.
(This post was edited by drfelatio on Aug 22, 2007, 3:22 AM)
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hiyapokey
Aug 22, 2007, 5:11 AM
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When your out in a place that has public access you see all sorts of violation like trash, graffiti, and a general lack of respect for the land. Its been going on forever too. I find old mining equipment broken blue glass from a hundred years ago etc. Heck they found Conan was here in Latin from 500 AD written in a burial mound in Ireland. You can't expect people to do what is right just because its right, there has to be consequences for peoples actions. One option for this guy is he could have climbers report to his inn and sign a paper with the rules on it. Also, the climbers put down a 50 dollar deposit. If they break the rules then they forfeit their deposit. Misses Pees Wherever She Wants would most likely be so mad that she wouldn't come back and the owner could say unemotionally you knew the rules, I am as sorry as you are that you broke them. He wouldn't have to though since folks would follow the rules. I love living in America where we have access to all this public land, but something needs to give on how we treat it. People need to kindly be held responsible for their actions.
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overlord
Aug 22, 2007, 10:32 AM
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drfelatio wrote: From redriverclimbing.com: "This past week: The worst impact was on Wednesday. I was showing friends around the property (Our Bridesmaind in our wedding, here husband and here 14 year old daughter). There is a female climb to the left of Paranoia pissing in my yard, under the rock house, in front of all of us. First of all, I put in my yard a Port-o-let, for the climbing community. This female was too damn lazy to walk down the hill and use it. Secondly, she is pissing under the rock house where the rain will not remove her sweet smelling urine (respect for the property). And lastly, I did not need to walk up on this with my friends. What can you say: "Oh that is just a climber, just ignore it" (Respect for owner and family). " That was posted by the former owner of Torrent Falls. Whether that was the "straw that broke the camel's back" I can't say, but it would surely piss me off enough to close a place down. The full discussion can be found at: http://redriverclimbing.com/...e9c8ecab5412ef4cf9af Torrent has since been bought by someone else. Climbing is still closed there for now.
ouch. what a stupid cow. in this case, i wholly understand the owner.
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dingus
Aug 22, 2007, 11:44 AM
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Wow that was a class act. Hell I would have closed it down too.
DMT
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jgloporto
Aug 22, 2007, 4:12 PM
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drfelatio wrote: From redriverclimbing.com: "This past week: The worst impact was on Wednesday. I was showing friends around the property (Our Bridesmaind in our wedding, here husband and here 14 year old daughter). There is a female climb to the left of Paranoia pissing in my yard, under the rock house, in front of all of us. First of all, I put in my yard a Port-o-let, for the climbing community. This female was too damn lazy to walk down the hill and use it. Secondly, she is pissing under the rock house where the rain will not remove her sweet smelling urine (respect for the property). And lastly, I did not need to walk up on this with my friends. What can you say: "Oh that is just a climber, just ignore it" (Respect for owner and family). " That was posted by the former owner of Torrent Falls. Whether that was the "straw that broke the camel's back" I can't say, but it would surely piss me off enough to close a place down. The full discussion can be found at: http://redriverclimbing.com/...e9c8ecab5412ef4cf9af Torrent has since been bought by someone else. Climbing is still closed there for now.
Like school in the summer...
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zeke_sf
Aug 22, 2007, 7:27 PM
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"No swearing" is still anti-fucking-American.
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jgloporto
Aug 22, 2007, 7:30 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: "No swearing" is still anti-fucking-American.
Fuckin A!!! But start pissing all over my yard and I'll shoot ya. Now that's 'merican!
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zeke_sf
Aug 22, 2007, 7:37 PM
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jgloporto wrote: zeke_sf wrote: "No swearing" is still anti-fucking-American. Fuckin A!!! But start pissing all over my yard and I'll shoot ya. Now that's 'merican!
Touche.
It is also pretty weak when the owners made a lot of concessions to then go all homeless lady on their yard.
I remember reading some of the issues that I believe were centered around the same climbing area though, and the person who wrote that made it sound like the owners were just looking for reasons to shut down the climbing. If not one thing, it would have been another. Climbers are good people, but we like to curse, go off trail and pee on trees, and lord knows--even though half of us hate them--somebody is bringing Fido.
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freezorburn
Aug 23, 2007, 4:44 PM
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splitterchoss wrote: general selfishness and lack of respect that seems to be so prevalent in the climbing community today.
WTF??? Where do you climb?
Where I live, Climbers are respectfull, unselfish and covservation minded.
The only other sporting group that dose more for the environment are the hunters and/or hikers. They give more money to covservation, Help and understand the environment more then the protesters.
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tolman_paul
Feb 11, 2008, 7:43 PM
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As climbing became mainstream, you had a subset of society that reflects their values, or lack thereof. I can't say climbers of old were somehow better than the general climbing public, as there have always been selfish a-holes.
The real issue is impact, and a larger climbing community has a larger impact on the environmet. I remember when I started climbing at the Pinnacles when there was the old small guidebook. Back then on a weekend you'd see one or two other parties. Then the new guidebook cameout, climbing was going mainstream, and you would go there on a weekend and almost every route had a rope on it.
And sadly when you have more people making more of an impact, you end up with more rules. You also have the occasional retard that just doesn't give a shit and spoils it for the rest of us.
Sometimes it's worth driving a little farther, and hiking a little deeper into the woods to get to the rocks that don't have as much traffic.
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