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phile
Aug 7, 2007, 10:30 PM
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Is there a preferred way to shorten a cordalette when it's longer than needed? The only thing that comes to mind is tying a big powerpoint and using the shelf of that knot instead of the loop it creates. I'm sure there's a smarter way?
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NSFW
Aug 7, 2007, 10:38 PM
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The powerpoint/shelf combo is hard to beat.
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timm
Aug 7, 2007, 10:50 PM
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I use a figure-9, figure-10, etc. to shorten up the power point ... this is just like tying a figure-8 but just putting additional wraps around the figure-8 before finishing the knot.
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summerprophet
Aug 7, 2007, 10:51 PM
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You have a few options.
Major shortening
1. Tie a figure eight or figure nine knot for your power point rather than an overhand.
2. Tie a limiting knot on the cord before tying your power point. the knot should slide to one of the pro carabiners, and the excess rope will hang free.
3. Do a double loop on one of the pieces, so you will be using the same amount of cord as if you were making an anchor with one more piece of pro.
4. Use one more piece of pro.
5. If you have a LOT of excess cord, rather than tying a typical knot, grap the loops and double them over themselves and tie a mega-knot(overhand or figure eight). This also makes the tails an alternate clip in point. (not a primary though)
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billl7
Aug 7, 2007, 11:18 PM
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The silver bullet: (?)
Don't tie together the ends of the cordalette - leave the cord as one long strand. When you go to rig the traditional knotted cordalette, just treat the 2 free ends as though they go to an imaginary piece. That is, just let them hang out in space when you tie the power point knot. To say it another way, let the free ends dangle on the shelf side of the power point knot. Then, if you want a shorter cordalette then just make those dangling strands longer before tieing the knot.
The person who showed me this was an instructor I hired for a day of learning to lead trad. He preferred this for the reason you mentioned (make it shorter) plus 3 more reasons: an untied cord was more handy for i) tieing around a large tree, ii) using for various purposes in a rescue situation and iii) adding another piece of pro to the anchor after the knot is made (e.g., just clove hitch a free strand to the new piece).
Personally, I never kept mine that way (although I don't use the traditional knotted cordalette anymore).
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Aug 7, 2007, 11:22 PM)
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phile
Aug 8, 2007, 12:54 AM
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Excellent input. Thank you to all of you.
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wings
Aug 8, 2007, 1:41 AM
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timm wrote: I use a figure-9, figure-10, etc. to shorten up the power point ... this is just like tying a figure-8 but just putting additional wraps around the figure-8 before finishing the knot.
I've never heard the term "figure-10" used to describe this knot.
Also, regarding the figure-9 knot, where you put that extra wrap matters.
http://www.massey.ac.nz/...sgow//nzss/knots.htm
As such, I'm not 100% sure what you meant by the figure-9 is the same as what is commonly known as the figure-9.
- Seyil
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Brett1234
Aug 8, 2007, 5:19 AM
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In Long's book Climbing Anchors, he makes a strong case for replacing your cordalette with an equalette which is easily adjusted for length, as well as having several other advantages. (You can make your own from 7mm nylon and a few knots). That's what I did.
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norushnomore
Aug 8, 2007, 10:17 AM
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Yeah, he also made a very strong case for the original cordalette.
Now he is making another very strong case.
He will keep making them as long as we keep buying his anchor book.
He conveniently avoids testing/suggesting alpine equalizer that solves most of the cordalette problems. Why? Who would buy his book to learn about equalette that is not sold in stores?
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LostinMaine
Aug 8, 2007, 12:21 PM
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In reply to: He conveniently avoids testing/suggesting alpine equalizer that solves most of the cordalette problems. Why? Who would buy his book to learn about equalette that is not sold in stores?
The equalette is sold in stores. Any climbing shop has 20 feet of 7mm cord. It's identical to a cordalette (material-wise), just tied differently.
I think he avoided the alpine equalizer because he and others were looking to improve upon the cordalette's sequential loading and unequal load distribution without using a specific gimmick product.
Even if you have no intentions of anchoring with a cordalette/equalette, the book is worth the price for the test results and overall anchor ideas.
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billl7
Aug 8, 2007, 1:27 PM
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LostinMaine wrote: Even if you have no intentions of anchoring with a cordalette/equalette, the book is worth the price for the test results and overall anchor ideas.
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 8, 2007, 4:00 PM
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Here is one that has not been mentioned and works well.
1. Pull down loops as normal.
2. Instead of tying figure 8, make a bight and tie an overhand on a bight.
3. Pull down the extra loop and clip together with the power point.
Josh
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phile
Aug 8, 2007, 6:46 PM
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I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere? I remember rgold proposing a ropalette, but i'm fuzzy on the details.
Josh--I don't quite understand your description. You tie an extra bight on the side with one of the strands, then re-equalize the first 3 loops?
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 8, 2007, 7:24 PM
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phile wrote: Josh--I don't quite understand your description. You tie an extra bight on the side with one of the strands, then re-equalize the first 3 loops?
I wish I had the time right now to take some pictures and post them, but I don't so I will try again which hopefully won't add to the confusion.
Normally, for a cordellette, you would pull between the pieces down and tie a knot (either a figure 8 or an overhand) This forms a power point and individual legs going to each piece.
Instead of tying the knot, bend it to form a bight and tie an overhand knot. In doing this, there will be extra loops coming out of the knot up towards your anchor. These loops you will want tied off, because if they come out than so does your knot. The best thing to do here is to bend them back towards your power point and clip them so that they essentially become part of your power point.
If it is still confusing then let me know. I might just have to take some pictures.
Josh
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phile
Aug 8, 2007, 8:23 PM
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oh, right. got it--thanks!
I just ordered the 2nd edition of Long's anchor book.
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knudenoggin
Aug 9, 2007, 12:47 AM
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billl7 wrote: The silver bullet: (?) Don't tie together the ends of the cordalette - leave the cord as one long strand.
so long as one brings them out through the powerpoint knot;
just clip the other two loops/eyes--which is ample.
And so, for this problem, rather than those solutions of making some
bulkier (and harder to set evenly--read, worsening of whatever
equalization was going to obtain) powerpoint knot, just make
one loop long enough to consume whatever excess material
you have, and tie off with the usual knot; clip the other two eyes.
*kN*
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norushnomore
Aug 9, 2007, 11:08 AM
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phile wrote: I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere?
Yes, you can buy 7mm cord but you still have to buy his book to figure out how to tie the equalette.
So AE is a gimmicky product? What about cams? They were dismissed as gimmicky toys back in the day as well.
Oh well, that 25' long 7mm is not bulky at all. And four cams for a good anchor: who would use less? Just make sure to clip into both lockers as that contraption takes two and read that long thread on clove hitch around two biners.
And don't forget to setup your partner with another 25' of 7mm and 4 more cams and two more lockers.
Have fun hauling
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sgauss
Aug 9, 2007, 12:37 PM
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phile wrote: I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere? I remember rgold proposing a ropalette, but i'm fuzzy on the details. Josh--I don't quite understand your description. You tie an extra bight on the side with one of the strands, then re-equalize the first 3 loops?
If you search this site for equalette, you can probably find the original forum thread where John Long talked about the equalette.
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billl7
Aug 9, 2007, 1:15 PM
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norushnomore wrote: phile wrote: I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere? Yes, you can buy 7mm cord but you still have to buy his book to figure out how to tie the equalette. So AE is a gimmicky product? What about cams? They were dismissed as gimmicky toys back in the day as well.
$36.95 alpine equalizer
$50.00 the typical cam
$21.00 Long's/Gaines' new book and 24 feet of 7 mm perlon cord
Man, the book and cord are cheap!
(This post was edited by billl7 on Aug 9, 2007, 1:33 PM)
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phile
Aug 13, 2007, 4:31 AM
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sgauss wrote: phile wrote: I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere? If you search this site for equalette, you can probably find the original forum thread where John Long talked about the equalette.
woooo. just spent several days digesting the information in this thread, which tracked the development of the equalette and long's recommendation to ditch the cordelette. it will certainly change my practice.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
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