Forums: Climbing Information: General:
shortening cordalette?
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for General

Premier Sponsor:

 


phile


Aug 7, 2007, 3:30 PM
Post #1 of 21 (2018 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 4, 2004
Posts: 114

shortening cordalette?
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Is there a preferred way to shorten a cordalette when it's longer than needed? The only thing that comes to mind is tying a big powerpoint and using the shelf of that knot instead of the loop it creates. I'm sure there's a smarter way?


NSFW


Aug 7, 2007, 3:38 PM
Post #2 of 21 (2013 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 25, 2007
Posts: 2005

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The powerpoint/shelf combo is hard to beat.


timm


Aug 7, 2007, 3:50 PM
Post #3 of 21 (1996 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 4, 2005
Posts: 314

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I use a figure-9, figure-10, etc. to shorten up the power point ... this is just like tying a figure-8 but just putting additional wraps around the figure-8 before finishing the knot.


summerprophet


Aug 7, 2007, 3:51 PM
Post #4 of 21 (1993 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 764

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

You have a few options.

Major shortening
1. Tie a figure eight or figure nine knot for your power point rather than an overhand.

2. Tie a limiting knot on the cord before tying your power point. the knot should slide to one of the pro carabiners, and the excess rope will hang free.

3. Do a double loop on one of the pieces, so you will be using the same amount of cord as if you were making an anchor with one more piece of pro.

4. Use one more piece of pro.

5. If you have a LOT of excess cord, rather than tying a typical knot, grap the loops and double them over themselves and tie a mega-knot(overhand or figure eight). This also makes the tails an alternate clip in point. (not a primary though)


billl7


Aug 7, 2007, 4:18 PM
Post #5 of 21 (1950 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The silver bullet: (?)

Don't tie together the ends of the cordalette - leave the cord as one long strand. When you go to rig the traditional knotted cordalette, just treat the 2 free ends as though they go to an imaginary piece. That is, just let them hang out in space when you tie the power point knot. To say it another way, let the free ends dangle on the shelf side of the power point knot. Then, if you want a shorter cordalette then just make those dangling strands longer before tieing the knot.

The person who showed me this was an instructor I hired for a day of learning to lead trad. He preferred this for the reason you mentioned (make it shorter) plus 3 more reasons: an untied cord was more handy for i) tieing around a large tree, ii) using for various purposes in a rescue situation and iii) adding another piece of pro to the anchor after the knot is made (e.g., just clove hitch a free strand to the new piece).

Personally, I never kept mine that way (although I don't use the traditional knotted cordalette anymore).

Bill L


(This post was edited by billl7 on Aug 7, 2007, 4:22 PM)


phile


Aug 7, 2007, 5:54 PM
Post #6 of 21 (1885 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 4, 2004
Posts: 114

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Excellent input. Thank you to all of you.


wings


Aug 7, 2007, 6:41 PM
Post #7 of 21 (1853 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 283

Re: [timm] shortening cordalette? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

timm wrote:
I use a figure-9, figure-10, etc. to shorten up the power point ... this is just like tying a figure-8 but just putting additional wraps around the figure-8 before finishing the knot.

I've never heard the term "figure-10" used to describe this knot.

Also, regarding the figure-9 knot, where you put that extra wrap matters.

http://www.massey.ac.nz/...sgow//nzss/knots.htm

As such, I'm not 100% sure what you meant by the figure-9 is the same as what is commonly known as the figure-9.

- Seyil


Brett1234


Aug 7, 2007, 10:19 PM
Post #8 of 21 (1785 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 5, 2007
Posts: 22

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In Long's book Climbing Anchors, he makes a strong case for replacing your cordalette with an equalette which is easily adjusted for length, as well as having several other advantages. (You can make your own from 7mm nylon and a few knots). That's what I did.


norushnomore


Aug 8, 2007, 3:17 AM
Post #9 of 21 (1744 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 4, 2002
Posts: 414

Re: [Brett1234] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yeah, he also made a very strong case for the original cordalette.

Now he is making another very strong case.
He will keep making them as long as we keep buying his anchor book.

He conveniently avoids testing/suggesting alpine equalizer that solves most of the cordalette problems. Why? Who would buy his book to learn about equalette that is not sold in stores?


LostinMaine


Aug 8, 2007, 5:21 AM
Post #10 of 21 (1722 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 8, 2007
Posts: 539

Re: [norushnomore] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
He conveniently avoids testing/suggesting alpine equalizer that solves most of the cordalette problems. Why? Who would buy his book to learn about equalette that is not sold in stores?

The equalette is sold in stores. Any climbing shop has 20 feet of 7mm cord. It's identical to a cordalette (material-wise), just tied differently.

I think he avoided the alpine equalizer because he and others were looking to improve upon the cordalette's sequential loading and unequal load distribution without using a specific gimmick product.

Even if you have no intentions of anchoring with a cordalette/equalette, the book is worth the price for the test results and overall anchor ideas.


billl7


Aug 8, 2007, 6:27 AM
Post #11 of 21 (1697 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890

Re: [LostinMaine] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

LostinMaine wrote:
Even if you have no intentions of anchoring with a cordalette/equalette, the book is worth the price for the test results and overall anchor ideas.
Well said.


blueeyedclimber


Aug 8, 2007, 9:00 AM
Post #12 of 21 (1661 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602

Re: [billl7] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Here is one that has not been mentioned and works well.

1. Pull down loops as normal.
2. Instead of tying figure 8, make a bight and tie an overhand on a bight.
3. Pull down the extra loop and clip together with the power point.

Josh


phile


Aug 8, 2007, 11:46 AM
Post #13 of 21 (1616 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 4, 2004
Posts: 114

Re: [blueeyedclimber] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere? I remember rgold proposing a ropalette, but i'm fuzzy on the details.

Josh--I don't quite understand your description. You tie an extra bight on the side with one of the strands, then re-equalize the first 3 loops?


blueeyedclimber


Aug 8, 2007, 12:24 PM
Post #14 of 21 (1594 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

phile wrote:
Josh--I don't quite understand your description. You tie an extra bight on the side with one of the strands, then re-equalize the first 3 loops?

I wish I had the time right now to take some pictures and post them, but I don't so I will try again which hopefully won't add to the confusion.

Normally, for a cordellette, you would pull between the pieces down and tie a knot (either a figure 8 or an overhand) This forms a power point and individual legs going to each piece.

Instead of tying the knot, bend it to form a bight and tie an overhand knot. In doing this, there will be extra loops coming out of the knot up towards your anchor. These loops you will want tied off, because if they come out than so does your knot. The best thing to do here is to bend them back towards your power point and clip them so that they essentially become part of your power point.

If it is still confusing then let me know. I might just have to take some pictures.

Josh


phile


Aug 8, 2007, 1:23 PM
Post #15 of 21 (1562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 4, 2004
Posts: 114

Re: [blueeyedclimber] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

oh, right. got it--thanks!

I just ordered the 2nd edition of Long's anchor book.


knudenoggin


Aug 8, 2007, 5:47 PM
Post #16 of 21 (1528 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 6, 2004
Posts: 596

Re: [billl7] shortening cordalette? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

billl7 wrote:
The silver bullet: (?)

Don't tie together the ends of the cordalette - leave the cord as one long strand.
Nice one. Frankly, the ends needn't be joined, in the general case,
so long as one brings them out through the powerpoint knot;
just clip the other two loops/eyes--which is ample.

And so, for this problem, rather than those solutions of making some
bulkier (and harder to set evenly--read, worsening of whatever
equalization was going to obtain) powerpoint knot, just make
one loop long enough to consume whatever excess material
you have, and tie off with the usual knot; clip the other two eyes.

*kN*


norushnomore


Aug 9, 2007, 4:08 AM
Post #17 of 21 (1473 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 4, 2002
Posts: 414

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

phile wrote:
I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere?

Yes, you can buy 7mm cord but you still have to buy his book to figure out how to tie the equalette.

So AE is a gimmicky product? What about cams? They were dismissed as gimmicky toys back in the day as well.

Oh well, that 25' long 7mm is not bulky at all. And four cams for a good anchor: who would use less? Just make sure to clip into both lockers as that contraption takes two and read that long thread on clove hitch around two biners.
And don't forget to setup your partner with another 25' of 7mm and 4 more cams and two more lockers.

Have fun hauling


sgauss


Aug 9, 2007, 5:37 AM
Post #18 of 21 (1445 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 29, 2006
Posts: 138

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

phile wrote:
I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere? I remember rgold proposing a ropalette, but i'm fuzzy on the details.

Josh--I don't quite understand your description. You tie an extra bight on the side with one of the strands, then re-equalize the first 3 loops?

If you search this site for equalette, you can probably find the original forum thread where John Long talked about the equalette.


skinner


Aug 9, 2007, 6:05 AM
Post #19 of 21 (1434 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 1747

Re: [phile] shortening cordalette? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

phile wrote:
Is there a preferred way to shorten a cordalette when it's longer than needed?





Sorry.. it's early.. I couldn't resist.
Cool


billl7


Aug 9, 2007, 6:15 AM
Post #20 of 21 (1429 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890

Re: [norushnomore] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

norushnomore wrote:
phile wrote:
I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere?

Yes, you can buy 7mm cord but you still have to buy his book to figure out how to tie the equalette.

So AE is a gimmicky product? What about cams? They were dismissed as gimmicky toys back in the day as well.

$36.95 alpine equalizer

$50.00 the typical cam

$21.00 Long's/Gaines' new book and 24 feet of 7 mm perlon cord

Man, the book and cord are cheap!


(This post was edited by billl7 on Aug 9, 2007, 6:33 AM)


phile


Aug 12, 2007, 9:31 PM
Post #21 of 21 (1301 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 4, 2004
Posts: 114

Re: [sgauss] shortening cordalette?->equalette [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

sgauss wrote:
phile wrote:
I have older versions of Long's anchor books--is there a description of the equalette online somewhere?

If you search this site for equalette, you can probably find the original forum thread where John Long talked about the equalette.

woooo. just spent several days digesting the information in this thread, which tracked the development of the equalette and long's recommendation to ditch the cordelette. it will certainly change my practice.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;


Forums : Climbing Information : General

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook