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dynamic
Oct 8, 2002, 2:56 AM
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I was just thinking about Hinduism and one of the main questions in my mind is that of happiness.
One of the goals of some Hindu philosophies is to attain a kind of tranquility involving no extreme elation or depression.
Sooo... relating this (somehow) to climbing, one of the main reasons I climb is to elate myself emotionally, throwing any such tranquility out of wack. On the other hand, I feel very tranquil afterwards, so where is the contradiction? The action alone provides stimulus carrying the aftereffect burden of tranquility.
So here's the sticker: Are the ideas of being happy or acheiving tranqulity mutually exclusive [is the positive (happiness) balanced by negative (sadness)] or is it all just a figment of our perception without essential value, negating the need to challenge it or feed it?
I've just confused myself...
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rockjock04
Oct 8, 2002, 4:15 AM
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and me as well. .
C'mon, write so we can understand.
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jono13
Oct 8, 2002, 4:22 AM
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well, im more confused than a bi sexual in a sex orgy! *pauses for applause* yes, that should do
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dynamic
Oct 8, 2002, 4:41 AM
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I don't know, you tell me what is right...
So would you consider happiness to be the product of tranquility?
Have we amused ourselves into impotence?
Would you consider tranquility to be the product of happiness?
Is sorrow a bad thing?
I'm wrestling with the idea that tranquility may, in fact, be better than elation (and inherently depression).
It seems like our culture is always telling us to do what makes us happy, but it seems that "happiness" is a fleeting concept, as in the highs have to keep getting higher.
...edited for clarification...
[ This Message was edited by: dynamic on 2002-10-07 21:43 ]
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nikegirl
Oct 8, 2002, 4:51 AM
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let me think.... OUCH!
I tend to look at things in a larger perspective... such as time.
life's lessons, I've learned. Life's trials.
Remembering the sadness, hardness, brutality of my past.
Realizing that now, it's good. I am here. Life as it is, was...got me to this place.
moments, tend to be that...as well...
branch in a road...choose one.
choose the wrong one(life's trials)...turn another see life, good...whole.
I feel elation, in climbing
I feel elation in love
I feel lucky that I am here
I feel lucky to have the friends I have
I choose life
I choose this life
I choose my energy
I speak into existance.
I am not a victim
I am good
I have integrity
I can adapt
I am me
right now? life is damn hard...as you speak of negative or depression.
soon? Life will be happily lived...for this I know...this will be the tranquility I need.
hard now, good later.
look back at it, and learn. Lesson learned...always. Happy to be. JUST BE.
so, I shall get thru this crux...frustration
to be at the top...for the elation
wow...
touched me
sorry if it's a babble. but, thanks for the provocative question
wonder if I got the gist of your ?
if not...again forgive my babble
T
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wildtrail
Oct 8, 2002, 6:33 AM
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I understood you, John.
First, are you Hindu? If no, then don't worry about it. It is only one of the guide lines to that religion.
Just like Buddhism, there is supposed to be no up or down. Only middle. In other words, a balance.
We all get something different from climbing (for example). I feel very tranquil when climbing. I also feel great excitement. I'm totally at peace, no matter the feeling, when climbing. One of the few times in life I feel at peace.
Is it positive balanced by negative? I don't know. I tend not to think so. I think it isn't a figment of perception, rather a perception of a concept or ideal and the value is given by the individual. Make any sense?
Basically, you get out of it what you give to it. What you put in is only what you will get in return.
Steve
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dynamic
Oct 8, 2002, 6:40 AM
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Are you saying that I shouldn't learn from other perspectives?
Thanks for your ideas ng.
[ This Message was edited by: dynamic on 2002-10-07 23:47 ]
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likethegoddess
Oct 8, 2002, 7:41 AM
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Hmmm, very good questions, dynamic. Here's my sleepy-minded thoughts on the subject. (I’m not going to tell you what’s “right”, ok?)
"The Golden Mean" or a happy medium is considered a desirable existence in various spiritual traditions. Sometimes, especially when we are first teaching this to ourselves, we can tend to go high and low before we find the center. I, personally, consider it more balancing to hold that tranquility during the exhilaration of climbing and hold that exhilaration during the tranquility afterward. Think of the Tao if you will. There is one white half and one black half. And in the black, a small dot of white. And in white, black. Tranquility, to me, is about maintaining connection to both light and dark at the same time.
As to your kicker, I tend to separate “happiness” from “tranquility”. Things we call "good" happen and things we call "bad" happen. There is a great deal of subjectivity to this. Tranquility, to me, is the undercurrent. Tranquility can be the basis of dealing with bad and good as though the same. I can be going through difficult times and still, with practice, be tranquil. Tranquility to me is like the Wu-Chi, the “one”, the stillness that the Tao comes from. And because the Tao is living and is always being born from the Wu-chi, I’m starting to see movement, the balancing of light and dark, coming from stillness. Hmmmmmm.
As to your question in the second post… So, yes, I would consider happiness *a* product of tranquility, but perhaps not the way you think. Sadness is a product of tranquility as well. Happiness may be a product of tranquility, but not the goal. Tranquility just is. It serves no purpose other than to be. “Have we amused ourselves to impotence?” Well said. No, no sorrow is not such a bad thing. It is an essential experience.
So, have you been doing much reading on the subject? You might find some value, if you haven’t read it already, in the Tao Te Ching (Lao-tzu).
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climbinganne
Oct 8, 2002, 7:45 AM
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GOOD FRIGGIN KARMA FOR ME AT CITY...EVEN ON PARKINGLOT ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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amsam
Oct 9, 2002, 1:18 AM
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I don't think they neccesarily have to be mutually exclusive, but I do think that one can lead to the other.
I mean, think about what you would consider a happy time that you've had, did you have that giddy, elated feeling of happiness, or were you for the most part sort of tranquil and content?
For me if I think about my trip to Ecuador, or about some of the more rewarding climbs I've done, I realize that for the most part, I just felt very content, very tranquil. There were those moments where I felt really happy, those high points, but there were no real lows.
I guess I would think of tranquility as something you would strive to acheive as a constant or regular sort of background feeling. So there would be moment where you would feel happy or elated. But if you had that tranquil feeling all the time, then when you came back down from those happy times, you would once again be simply content, not sad.
Alright, this isn't coming out the way I want it to. It's too hard to explain this with out a visual.
I'll try later once figure out how to put all of this.
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wildtrail
Oct 9, 2002, 2:34 AM
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No. I'm not saying you shouldn't learn from other perspectives. I'm saying you need to develope, or realize, your own perspectives and live your way. Draw energy your way. Find tranquility your way. Find positive and negative your way.
Steve
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