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papounet
Sep 10, 2007, 3:57 PM
Post #26 of 29
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Registered: May 28, 2003
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ja1484 wrote: bbirtle wrote: True in an ideal world, mostly impractical in the real world. Certainly impractical on the route of the accident. Arguable. Tying a water knot in webbing doesn't take more than 30s seconds, and if you have some lengths already in place, pre threaded through rap rings, it's not so much of an issue. Granted, a long route (more than 5 pitches or so) makes this impractical, but any route of length seeing regular traffic should be fixed, plain and simple. ...
Be aware that most (and I mean MOST) routes in the Alps have no fixed descent stations. and that should not change.
This is moutaineering, not climbing.
Even rappel rings are unknown in those parts of the world ;-)
As far as I understand, the cause of the accident was not replacing or not replacing the piece of sling. it was in using a stance above the belay. I will let a mathematician compute the force generated by 80kg falling 1 meter onto a near-static piece of material.
All my condoleances to the family and partner of the deceased climber.
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ja1484
Sep 11, 2007, 12:38 AM
Post #27 of 29
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Registered: Aug 11, 2006
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papounet wrote: ja1484 wrote: bbirtle wrote: True in an ideal world, mostly impractical in the real world. Certainly impractical on the route of the accident. Arguable. Tying a water knot in webbing doesn't take more than 30s seconds, and if you have some lengths already in place, pre threaded through rap rings, it's not so much of an issue. Granted, a long route (more than 5 pitches or so) makes this impractical, but any route of length seeing regular traffic should be fixed, plain and simple. ... Be aware that most (and I mean MOST) routes in the Alps have no fixed descent stations. and that should not change. This is moutaineering, not climbing. Even rappel rings are unknown in those parts of the world ;-) As far as I understand, the cause of the accident was not replacing or not replacing the piece of sling. it was in using a stance above the belay. I will let a mathematician compute the force generated by 80kg falling 1 meter onto a near-static piece of material. All my condoleances to the family and partner of the deceased climber.
If the rock face is part of a larger mountaineering route (a la The Diamond), I can certainly agree on that note. I'd prefer routes in the mountaineering environ be specifically left un-fixed. If it's a dedicated rock-jock area, I think fixing hardware is probably lower impact than the alternatives (vegetation, slings + cordage everywhere).
I wasn't aware this was a mountaineering situation. My bad.
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extreme_actuary
Sep 11, 2007, 2:14 AM
Post #28 of 29
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Registered: Jan 26, 2006
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Thanks for the great information. I am a little confused, on this Purcell Prusik system, do I clip into the big loop and clip the small loop to the anchor? Is the prussik supposed to cinch down and absorb some the force?
My condolences also. I Hope his misfortune can save some lives by educating the rest of us.
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papounet
Sep 13, 2007, 9:03 AM
Post #29 of 29
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Registered: May 28, 2003
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[quote "ja1484
If the rock face is part of a larger mountaineering route (a la The Diamond), I can certainly agree on that note. I'd prefer routes in the mountaineering environ be specifically left un-fixed. If it's a dedicated rock-jock area, I think fixing hardware is probably lower impact than the alternatives (vegetation, slings + cordage everywhere).
I wasn't aware this was a mountaineering situation. My bad.
Route starts at 3400; summit 3848m
9 pitch of climbing, max climbing French 6b
or
UIAA VII, A 0 (1 passage), mostly V+ and VI. ED-. 280 hm, 6 h
rappels are fixed, as much as rappels can be in a high mountain environment: pitons are old, slings are dubious, etc..
as a my poor homage to the climber, I would like some of the picture of that mountain. I understand and share the pull this climb has.
Rest In Peace
http://alpinisme.camptocamp.com/en/tpl1/sortie4756.html
http://www.summitpost.org/...3/grand-capucin.html
from http://fcorpet.free.fr/Denis/GdCap.html
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