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starting out sport, how to clean that top gear?
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thej


Sep 19, 2007, 7:59 AM
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Re: [coastal_climber] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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coastal_climber wrote:
And are we talking about these: http://www.mec.ca/...;bmUID=1190058054546

About these. and attack away if this is wrong. BUT I learned that if just slingshot TR, whoever is cleaning, go up and take down the anchor setup (cord/sling whatever), then get lowered off through the rings. The way i have done this goes something like this.

Reach the anchors, if you can stand comfortably, ask for some slack, pull a bight through the rap ring and tie a fig8 on a bight and clip that fig 8 into your belay loop with a locker. (if you can't stand, or it's a little shaky clip a runner/daisy chain/whatever you choose into the anchor).

Untie your original knot (because you are clipped in on the fig8 on a bight) then either retie or trust the fig8 clipped to your belay loop.

Clean the anchor and get lowered off. With the rope running through the rap rings.

So,how bad is that for the rap rings?


that's just for single pitch redirected TRs, we always rap down on multi pitch, or true TR.


tedman


Sep 19, 2007, 10:55 AM
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Re: [thej] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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so I found a nice illustrated guide for this in case anyone else has the same question in the future.

http://www.planetmountain.com/english/Lab/techniques/singlepitch/index.html

I get how to set it up so that you can be lowered, but how would you set it up to rap down? note that I dont know how to rap at all.


shrug7


Sep 19, 2007, 12:18 PM
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Re: [thej] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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When you are lowered your body weight applies friction to the rings, think of it like a saw, though not very sharp. Repeating this time and time again the rings will wear and will need to be replaced more often then if everyone just raps off and pulls the rope though with no body weight.


pro_alien


Sep 20, 2007, 6:38 AM
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Re: [shrug7] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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shrug7 wrote:
When you are lowered your body weight applies friction to the rings, think of it like a saw, though not very sharp. Repeating this time and time again the rings will wear and will need to be replaced more often then if everyone just raps off and pulls the rope though with no body weight.

That's why a good anchor will use easy to replace quicklinks (maillon rapide) instead of rings...


azrockclimber


Sep 20, 2007, 7:20 AM
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Re: [tedman] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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tedman wrote:
ok, so are there any other options? I know toprope puts more wear on a rope, but if other people are climbing who want to follow, any other way to do it? And as far as rapeling, do I need any other gear (rappel rings, figure 8? if I have ATCs). It seems like you could just be lowered off the top anchors without having to rappel, or is this the same deal where it wears your rope and the anchors out?

dude...Whoa...you don't know that you can rap with an ATC....

you need more experience....DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT INSTRUCTION on actual rock....

This is just a bad story waiting to happen.

stay safe


(This post was edited by azrockclimber on Sep 20, 2007, 7:21 AM)


coastal_climber


Sep 20, 2007, 8:05 AM
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Re: [thej] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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thej wrote:
coastal_climber wrote:
And are we talking about these: http://www.mec.ca/...;bmUID=1190058054546

About these. and attack away if this is wrong. BUT I learned that if just slingshot TR, whoever is cleaning, go up and take down the anchor setup (cord/sling whatever), then get lowered off through the rings. The way i have done this goes something like this.

Reach the anchors, if you can stand comfortably, ask for some slack, pull a bight through the rap ring and tie a fig8 on a bight and clip that fig 8 into your belay loop with a locker. (if you can't stand, or it's a little shaky clip a runner/daisy chain/whatever you choose into the anchor).

Untie your original knot (because you are clipped in on the fig8 on a bight) then either retie or trust the fig8 clipped to your belay loop.

Clean the anchor and get lowered off. With the rope running through the rap rings.

So,how bad is that for the rap rings?


that's just for single pitch redirected TRs, we always rap down on multi pitch, or true TR.

I thought you meant these: http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/bolthangers.htm#rap (Enviro Rap hangers). Since we are on the same page now, I rappel off those instead of lowering.

>Cam


Valarc


Sep 20, 2007, 8:57 AM
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Re: [pro_alien] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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pro_alien wrote:
That's why a good anchor will use easy to replace quicklinks (maillon rapide) instead of rings...

Or you could, you know, be responsible and not TR or lower off the anchors. Quicklinks are bound to disappear on a whole lot of routes out there.


tedman


Sep 20, 2007, 9:17 AM
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Re: [azrockclimber] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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azrockclimber wrote:
dude...Whoa...you don't know that you can rap with an ATC....

you need more experience....DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT INSTRUCTION on actual rock....

This is just a bad story waiting to happen.

stay safe

no, I knew you could rap with an ATC, just didnt know if you needed to do anything else up top to set it up or if a figure 8 was prefered (which aparantly its not). I also just didnt know how to actually rap until last night, didnt realize it was as easy as tying in both ends of the strand through the ATC slots just like a belay and lowering yourself down.

Saw some people practicing it last night at the gym, they would climb 3/4 of the wall on TR and then grab another set of ropes on a different anchor and rap down. I also noticed they were tying a smaller section of rope in some configuration above/below the ATC that acted like a sheath for their top hand to hold onto. Is this some sort of auto-braking system just in case they freak out/are knocked out/whatever and release their brake hand? anyone have a little guide on exactly what was going on there?


dlintz


Sep 20, 2007, 9:30 AM
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Re: [tedman] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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tedman wrote:
azrockclimber wrote:
dude...Whoa...you don't know that you can rap with an ATC....

you need more experience....DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT INSTRUCTION on actual rock....

This is just a bad story waiting to happen.

stay safe

no, I knew you could rap with an ATC, just didnt know if you needed to do anything else up top to set it up or if a figure 8 was prefered (which aparantly its not). I also just didnt know how to actually rap until last night, didnt realize it was as easy as tying in both ends of the strand through the ATC slots just like a belay and lowering yourself down.

Saw some people practicing it last night at the gym, they would climb 3/4 of the wall on TR and then grab another set of ropes on a different anchor and rap down. I also noticed they were tying a smaller section of rope in some configuration above/below the ATC that acted like a sheath for their top hand to hold onto. Is this some sort of auto-braking system just in case they freak out/are knocked out/whatever and release their brake hand? anyone have a little guide on exactly what was going on there?

I'm going to assume it was something like this

Get yourself an experienced mentor.....soon.

d.


(This post was edited by dlintz on Sep 20, 2007, 10:22 AM)


Myxomatosis


Sep 20, 2007, 2:36 PM
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Re: [dlintz] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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dlintz wrote:
tedman wrote:
azrockclimber wrote:
dude...Whoa...you don't know that you can rap with an ATC....

you need more experience....DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT INSTRUCTION on actual rock....

This is just a bad story waiting to happen.

stay safe

no, I knew you could rap with an ATC, just didnt know if you needed to do anything else up top to set it up or if a figure 8 was prefered (which aparantly its not). I also just didnt know how to actually rap until last night, didnt realize it was as easy as tying in both ends of the strand through the ATC slots just like a belay and lowering yourself down.

Saw some people practicing it last night at the gym, they would climb 3/4 of the wall on TR and then grab another set of ropes on a different anchor and rap down. I also noticed they were tying a smaller section of rope in some configuration above/below the ATC that acted like a sheath for their top hand to hold onto. Is this some sort of auto-braking system just in case they freak out/are knocked out/whatever and release their brake hand? anyone have a little guide on exactly what was going on there?

I'm going to assume it was something like this

Get yourself an experienced mentor.....soon.

d.

Yeah exactly. My mentor taught me that system Smile

The system can be used if you are cleaning out trad gear and you need two hands to remove the gear (or doing a rescue of some sort). Or if you have someone who is freaking out and new to reppeling, just tie it on and it gives them an little extra peace of mind. But I usually find it gets in the way more than anything. Crazy

The knot is a simple pursk knot tied onto the main rope and I the way I was taught was to clip the 2nd biner into my leg strap (the samller one). But like above, get someone to show you in person


thej


Sep 21, 2007, 7:47 PM
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Re: [Valarc] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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Valarc wrote:
pro_alien wrote:
That's why a good anchor will use easy to replace quicklinks (maillon rapide) instead of rings...

Or you could, you know, be responsible and not TR or lower off the anchors. Quicklinks are bound to disappear on a whole lot of routes out there.


you know I don't think that fighting on the internet will get anyone anywhere, but I would like to point out that in my explanation/question I said take down the anchor (cord/sling/etc) and then run the rope through the rap rings. just to clarify.


so cam, it is or is not kosher to use those rap rings to run a bight through and lower off? Everyone else? No? I understand the wear and tear issue, but I just am not clear on how big of an issue it is.


abock33


Sep 21, 2007, 8:10 PM
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Re: [tedman] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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Like always I'm a bit late in putting in my $.02, but here it is . This http://www.muirvalley.com/pdf/CleaningBook_v1.pdf Is a pdf of how to lower with rapell. It's how I learned. I don't have a mentor. Just self taught knowledge. And others advice... Just be Safe. I learned how to clean by setting up a mock anchor where my rock rings are set up in my basement. Not 70ft up.


jt512


Sep 21, 2007, 8:23 PM
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Re: [thej] starting out sport, how to clean that top gear? [In reply to]
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thej wrote:
Valarc wrote:
pro_alien wrote:
That's why a good anchor will use easy to replace quicklinks (maillon rapide) instead of rings...

Or you could, you know, be responsible and not TR or lower off the anchors. Quicklinks are bound to disappear on a whole lot of routes out there.


you know I don't think that fighting on the internet will get anyone anywhere, but I would like to point out that in my explanation/question I said take down the anchor (cord/sling/etc) and then run the rope through the rap rings. just to clarify.


so cam, it is or is not kosher to use those rap rings to run a bight through and lower off? Everyone else? No? I understand the wear and tear issue, but I just am not clear on how big of an issue it is.

I haven't been following this thread, so hopefully this comment is not out of context. To answer your question, do not lower off of in situ rap rings. If you want to lower from a rap station equipped with rap rings, place draws through the chains above the rings, and lower through your draws, leaving the rap rings available for another party to rap from.

Jay

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