a big thick tick on every single nub or edge. Ticked like a gym climb.

Horseshit murf.


I hate horseshit on the trail. I occasionally complain about that fact on the internet. I do not clean it up.

Pray for me.

First, I must say, I effing love this thread. Thanks guys.

Here's the funny part. Jay loves slamming the climbers who don't climb as hard as him in this thread with a basic "when you get better you'll get it" type of statement.

There are 2 if not more posters on this thread who climb EVERY BIT as hard sport and harder trad than Jay who echo the statements of those lowly 5.10 climbers. When called out, he will not mention grades with them, because if he does, his "I'm a badass" arguement loses steam. Those who he's sure he can out-climb he busts their chops readily.

Of the harder climber/posters he just plays dumb and goes after grammer, spelling, or other such nonsense.

I would too. He wouldn't want his whole arguement to crumble with the admission that people (more than just me and camhead) are climbing 5.12 sport, trad, and pushing harder and harder whenever we get the chance. Worse yet, we don't appreciate or use tickmarks.

Remember guys, it's impossible to push 5.12 and up sport or trad, without tickmarks. It's just impossible.

I'd like to point out that "Angry" is the calmest one in the thread.




He's also right.

But then again, I'm a lowly 5.8 trad climber who doesn't know shit, so Jay I'm going to link to my profile to make it easier for you to piss your infinite wisdom on my lowly achievements.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ername=wanderlustmd;

Maybe it doesn't bother you, but it does bother enough other people.

This forum is certainly not representative of the community!

Which community, and why not?

basically, this discussion and ensuing arguments revolve around:Further, Angry is:

Now despite the grade of this climb and the abilities of the climber in question initially there was a:
but then in defence of this stance:
... with the further assertion:
and most certainly that a climber with climbing abilities greater than the grade of the route in question
Now, despite the contention that it is not about grade but rather the relative difficulty it's beginning to become unravelled here we even get a strawman:
...and an ad hominem:
we then get into interesting contradiction to the completely unqualified blanket statements from earlier:

but why Jay?


which is defended by the thinly-veiled ad hominem (it's interesting to note we have sexist remarks too):

ummmm yes you were:
Now, of course: (emphasis mine)
... but didn't angry already establish this wasn't a limit climb?

So, to conclude... Basically we begin with Angry making a statement about someone ticking a route well below their actual ability and not cleaning them up. A large part of his complaint was that none of these holds were difficult to find.

jt512 then weighs in with contentions that it's not about the grade of the climb but the relative difficulty of the climb to the individual, which theoretically agrees with angry. Essentially jt512 contends that grade and ticks are not grade dependent.

Then, amazingly jt512 opens fire with some great ad-hominem remarks about the climbing grade of his opponents suggesting that despite his previous assertions that grade does not matter with regards to tick-use - for the convenience of his argument it now does and that 5.10 climbers would not understand their use (!)

It gets pretty messy, but really this trainwreck of a character suicide has been brought to you by jt512.

Oh, by the way, to finish we also had this exchange:
we get some spray:

and:
plus:

... I guess that satisfies the burden of proof for the arrogance contention


Sigh, anyone else for taking up that killfile offer in his sig for ridding rc.com of his arrogant prattling?

Really, it's ironic that the one who most deserves to be killfiled is offering us the ability.

I'm using that link, thanks Jay! Oh, and goodbye!

Cheers Adam




* Brackets mine for clarification.

Which community, and why not?

Of the climbing community at large - only 1 or 2 climbers out of every 5 that I have met admit to posting on RC, or CascadeClimbers, or SuperTopo. So while I find these discussions entertaining, enlightening, and educational, I don't believe that the opinions expressed inside represent the much larger climbing community accurately or precisely.

I think, most likely, is that I'm going to strike up a conversation with the climbers around me and ask them for their opinions on the question.

And Jay really is an ass. I don't really read any of his posts after the first one in a thread. But I can't bear the idea of killfiling him - or anyone else - because I'm afraid I'll miss something in the conversation.

This is like children (self absorbed) that toss their old game once they've been all the way thru it once and go on to the next.

Congrats. You may have even driven a wider wedge between climbers themselves.

jay,

your assertion that 'the vast majority' of climbers climbing in the 12 range use ticks is absolute bullshit. maybe at new crap city, or your other little crag that is being 'secretly' developed. over the last 20 years i have climbed with probably 30 or more people who have, or are currently climbing at the 5.12 to 5.13 level. there is not one single occasion that i can recall where one of my partners has placed a tick, or declared that ticking a hold would be beneficial. vast majority? give me a fucking break.

jay,

your assertion that 'the vast majority' of climbers climbing in the 12 range use ticks is absolute bullshit. maybe at new crap city, or your other little crag that is being 'secretly' developed. over the last 20 years i have climbed with probably 30 or more people who have, or are currently climbing at the 5.12 to 5.13 level. there is not one single occasion that i can recall where one of my partners has placed a tick, or declared that ticking a hold would be beneficial. vast majority? give me a fucking break.

third, you say that having the holds ticked is beneficial to climbers doing the route. again, i think this is complete bullshit.

A new high watermark for rc.com: A pos(t)er suggests that striving for efficiency at redpointing is a sign of immaturity.


And divisiveness, too. Rad! So, let's recap: striving for redpoint efficiency, a value so obvious as to be self-evident, is, according to the posers on this website, lazy, disrespectful, immature, and divisive. Did I miss anything?

Jay

Yeah, you forgot to insult my mother.

But it is my fault for thinking you might get a clue. Anything goes as long as you require something from it, then its just waste. You know, like the time it would take you to clean up after yourself.

You may have even driven a wider wedge between climbers themselves.
Congrats.

lazy, disrespectful, immature

Wait--I just saw a video of Sharma and maybe Jay is right. Maybe all the high end dudes DO like tickmarks, and especially like leaving them up for others. Especially important is the last minute of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH9O4l5_L58

If I cleaned up my tick marks, I'd be depriving the next climber of beta. I'd happily clean up my tick marks if asked to. In the real world, sport climbers like to have beta. I've yet to hear a sport climber complain that chalk makes holds too easy to find.

Jay

ZING

I'm not sure what to make of that video. He says "I hate THIS tick mark" ?? and scrubs it off.

But he uses other holds throughout the climb that are clearly ticked?

maybe jt will understand when he gets up to that level of climbing.