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overlord
Mar 17, 2003, 9:01 AM
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In reply to: Chalk is not required in climbing unless you prefer to stay on the rock, as opposed to slipping off of it.
right on
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ronamick
Mar 17, 2003, 1:16 PM
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Way back in the day (mid-70's) Jim Donini gave a slide show in San Diego, during which he railed against chalk as a blight upon the rock.
We ran into him the next day at Pink Boulder, and after trying one mantle he said "boy this thing's slick, can I get a dip?".
Some rock you can get away with little or no chalk, some you can't. For me, it's absolutely necessary.
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climbergirl15
Mar 17, 2003, 1:56 PM
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I love chalk, although I hate that is dries out your hands so much that when you make a fist they crack and start to bleed.
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rwaltermyer
Mar 17, 2003, 2:39 PM
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so i guess to reach a consensus, would it be fair to say:
If you need it, use it; but use sparingly. Don't mark up a project boulder just for the heck of it, and be careful not to over chalk out or mere habit.
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michaelpaul
Mar 18, 2003, 5:38 AM
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Ron, I was almost reaching for my elbow deep bag just reading that post!
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da5id
Mar 18, 2003, 10:50 PM
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i think chalk use is really dependent on how much you sweat. I'm a teenager and i sweat like crazy when i climb. Even with chalk my hands sweat. Without chalk, climbing would be very interesting, and not very productive for me, but thats just me.
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fitz
Mar 19, 2003, 12:15 AM
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I hate three things about chalk.
#1 It leaves a trail that is hard to ignore. I like finding my own holds and route. For me route finding on a long, seldom traveled, route is part of the fun.
#2 It makes the holds slippery on popular routes. I've had people disagree with this, but I know lots of folks who carry toothbrushes for this very reason.
#3 I want to keep climbing, so I'd like climbers to keep as much of a leave no trace ethic as possible. Particularly in areas where non-climbers visit.
I don't think it is 'cheating' and I do think it works, but for the reasons above, I've pretty much given up using it the last couple of years (OK, I still dip in my partner's chalk bag once in awhile, but I'm working on it).
-jjf
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climber_dude
Mar 19, 2003, 6:18 AM
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real climbers dont use chalk?! thats like saying real marathon runners dont wear shoes!
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asuphil
Mar 19, 2003, 3:09 PM
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"Is chalk for sticking to a wall? No. If that is what you want, use rosin."
NEVER use rosin. It doesn't come off the rock and the only way to stick to it is to use more rosin. ROSIN=BAD
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mhr2000
Mar 23, 2003, 3:43 AM
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I'm a member of the endless sweaty hands club. I just learned today that without chalk I might as well forget about climbing forever. I went to a climbing gym for the first time. I didn't bother with chalk at first. During the first climbs when fresh I could over compensate the hand grip to make up for my sweaty hands. After a few climbs and some bouldering my now not so fresh muscles could no longer over compensate and all I did was slide off of every hold. A fellow boulderer offered up some chalk after seeing my constant falling and it made a world of difference. Even so, I was already so wore out from overdoing it at the beginning that I didn't last very much longer anyway, but it was due to muscles not grip after using the chalk. Also noticed if I cleaned my hands off after drying them with chalk, my sweat would start again and create a greasy slimmy mess that made things even worse. So for me, it's chalk and stay chalked.
I'm happy to hear so many of you are blessed with dry hands. Sweaty hands are quite a curse many of us have to bear.
I wish there was some sort of skin tight climbing glove we could use as an alternative, but until then try and have some compassion for those of us who love to climb and have to deal with this crap.
I'm all for color toned chalk. I think a beige earthtone would suffice for just about any climbing area.
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rockram
Mar 23, 2003, 4:10 AM
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anti-chalk? heck no! i pull out handfulls of chalk! i use way too much, and my belayer always says "it's snowing!"
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rgold
Mar 23, 2003, 5:32 AM
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It is true that John Gill brought chalk to climbing, but John used a block to put a little chalk on his fingertips. People who bouldered with John took the idea back to their home crags, where it met, at least at first, with great scepticism. Most of these early users just had a little lump in their pockets which they rubbed on their fingertips for a hard crimp. My impression is that the chalk bag filled with powdered chalk was invented in Yosemite for help with hand-jamming where you want chalk on the front and back of your hand. I first saw a chalk bag in Yosemite around 1970, I think.
In the early seventies, John Stannard studied the extent to which chalk increases or decreases the coefficient of friction between hand and rock. He found that a heavy dusting of chalk DECREASES coefficient of friction, but a light dusting increases it. This lead him to invent the chalk sock, which has never really caught on in spite of the fact that it gives an actually useful chalk dusting and makes for much less chalk impact on the rock.
Those who manage without chalk probably have naturally very dry hands. But another reason to use chalk is that it prevents the transfer of skin oils to the rock. If everyone gave up chalk, a lot of climbs and boulder problems would become horrifically greasy.
The best thing for both climbing and esthetics would be if the chalk sock was universally adopted. The worst thing that has happened is the creation of giant chalk buckets for bouldering.
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mhr2000
Mar 23, 2003, 6:44 AM
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I've been researching all night about sweaty hands and so far this is the most unique and easily accessible solution I've come across so far.
http://www.dryhands.com
Anybody try this stuff? I'm getting some tomorrow to test it out and will report back. Surprisingly, it can be found at Wal-mart and many other stores.
My favorite part so far.... "The advantage to DRY HANDS is that it is not sticky or greasy."
I hope their claim is correct because this could really help. With this product taking care of the sweating I'll be able to use an eco-ball to use less chalk since I won't have to over chalk to eliminate the sweat.
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sgt.pinkerton
Sep 23, 2007, 2:27 AM
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Coming up on chalk desecrating a beautiful rock wall is like walking up on someones household garbage in a pristine rose garden. Outlawing chalk use would be as beneficial as our no littering laws.
Whats next people? Wearing claws to scratch your way up like a cat on a curtain?
The chalk, after it has been exposed to 24 hours of elements, becomes slippery and deeply embedded in the pores of our rock walls. So unnatural and so dirty.
Sgt.Pinkerton
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EPiCJAMES
Sep 23, 2007, 2:34 AM
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sgt.pinkerton wrote: Coming up on chalk desecrating a beautiful rock wall is like walking up on someones household garbage in a pristine rose garden. Outlawing chalk use would be as beneficial as our no littering laws. Whats next people? Wearing claws to scratch your way up like a cat on a curtain? The chalk, after it has been exposed to 24 hours of elements, becomes slippery and deeply embedded in the pores of our rock walls. So unnatural and so dirty. Sgt.Pinkerton
you brought up a four year old thread to say this. is this really going to get people to clean up their chalk mess after themselves? proably not, so what was your point in bringing this up???
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sgt.pinkerton
Sep 23, 2007, 2:46 AM
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Watching chalkers smear their defecation up and down Skinner Buttes' Rock Columns. They have no regard for the next climber as if it's their right to litter behind them.
Is there not a more recent forum on this?
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EPiCJAMES
Sep 23, 2007, 3:03 AM
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sgt.pinkerton wrote: Is there not a more recent forum on this?
yes, do your homework.
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ClusterFock
Sep 23, 2007, 4:03 AM
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So what if he brings up an old thread?
rc.com is 75% rubbish posting anyway.
As for the topic. I'm a chalk whore and I'm NOT proud of it. The shit gets in your eyes, tastes bad when you accidently inhale some of it and it's just fucking ugly. I'm not against people using chalk but it is rather annoying when you're climbing at a National Park and the climbs are on nice deep red rock and all you see are massive white spots up the route. That's a sign of overkill to me.
Chalk is definately a great thing to use...people just use it before it's really needed. I'm trying to get over my chalk addiction...it's become an annoying habbit.
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fracture
Sep 23, 2007, 4:49 PM
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ClusterFock wrote: So what if he brings up an old thread? rc.com is 75% rubbish posting anyway.
That estimate sounds low...
In reply to: I'm not against people using chalk but it is rather annoying when you're climbing at a National Park and the climbs are on nice deep red rock and all you see are massive white spots up the route. That's a sign of overkill to me.
I think it's beautiful and enhances aesthetics.
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zeke_sf
Sep 23, 2007, 5:01 PM
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fracture wrote: ClusterFock wrote: So what if he brings up an old thread? rc.com is 75% rubbish posting anyway. That estimate sounds low... In reply to: I'm not against people using chalk but it is rather annoying when you're climbing at a National Park and the climbs are on nice deep red rock and all you see are massive white spots up the route. That's a sign of overkill to me. I think it's beautiful and enhances aesthetics.
I, too, like the overchalking because I find that I don't need to use any of my own.
At least climbers' chalk follows gratifying patterns and sequences. What we should do is kill (or, transplant to cliffs that aren't of utility to climbers) all those birds nesting on cliffs, prompting seasonal closures, and leaving beyond random tick marks that neither serve climbing or aesthetic purposes nearly so well (unles you're a Jackson Pollack fan, I guess).
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sgt.pinkerton
Sep 23, 2007, 6:37 PM
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Chalk is about as natural on a rock wall as American Soldiers are as natural in Iraq...Just like Texas to inundate a natural place with foreign objects and call it a beautiful thing...Must be a Village I...er..uhh..Texas thing.
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BrotherGambino
Sep 23, 2007, 9:25 PM
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sgt.pinkerton wrote: Chalk is about as natural on a rock wall as American Soldiers are as natural in Iraq...Just like Texas to inundate a natural place with foreign objects and call it a beautiful thing...Must be a Village I...er..uhh..Texas thing.
i take offense to that. the only time i chalk up is at the gym, because all the greasy hand kids grabbing whatever the hell the can hold, usually makes it pointless without it
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shockabuku
Sep 23, 2007, 11:13 PM
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sgt.pinkerton wrote: Chalk is about as natural on a rock wall as American Soldiers are as natural in Iraq...Just like Texas to inundate a natural place with foreign objects and call it a beautiful thing...Must be a Village I...er..uhh..Texas thing.
Actually, it's completely natural; if you view it as a competition for resources. If you're an idealist and think that we're there for more altruistic reasons then, indeed, it is unnatural.
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baja_java
Sep 24, 2007, 7:06 PM
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you don't have to be an idealist or an altruist. simpler than that, it's just about cleaning up after yourselves, about not making and leaving a mess. some people can. some can't
when you pick up trash out at the rocks or wherever else, do you think to yourself what a great idealist and altruist you are, or more so how lame those litterbugs are?
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sgt.pinkerton
Sep 24, 2007, 8:15 PM
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I took my Daughter out to climb yesterday, another 3' up, she got a lung full of chalk. turned a pleasant afternoon of climbing into a gagging, throwing-up let down. Who ever it was that climbed there before her, I wonder if he/she even thought about the next person up before slapping on the the chalk.
I'm not allergic to poison oak, and quite frankly find the oils soothing to my weathered hands...perhaps I should return the favor and apply some oak oil to my hands to ease my comfort during a climb.?.
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