|
bradhill
Oct 9, 2002, 10:00 PM
Post #1 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 486
|
I've done resort downhill skiing, irregularly, for many years. This winter, I'm ditching the snowshoes for a ski mountaineering setup for approaches and long winter tours. It just seems like the way to go, but I don't know a damn thing about AT or telemark skiing and so have a lot to learn.
Are there any boots out there that work well both for AT or telemark skiing and are crampon compatible and decent for alpine/ice climbing? Will any plastic climbing boot work if I get special bindings?
|
|
|
|
|
stonejunkie
Oct 9, 2002, 10:15 PM
Post #2 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 23
|
I was in the Black Diamond store yesterday talking to the guys about that. I don't know what you'd want for ice climbing exactly, but they have some sweet AT boots that are crampon compatible.
|
|
|
|
|
elvislegs
Oct 9, 2002, 10:35 PM
Post #3 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2002
Posts: 3148
|
For ski mountaineering I use a pair of Fritschi Diamir II bindings with Scarpa AT boots. Scarpa's boots work excellently with my BD sabertooth crampons even to the extent that I have climbed some waterfall ice in them and felt pretty good. They are comfortable and warm on aproaches and ski very well for AT boots. I have done quite a bit of snow climbing and mountaineering in them.
I have never tried Tele boots in AT bindings because I don't really know why the hell you would want to. I do know that the afformentioned Sabertooths fit Scarpa T2's OK, but I imagine that tele boots would need some trimming to fit in AT binders. I also use Tele skis only for more ski oriented pursuits rather than mountaineering. Just preference I suppose.
Silveretta makes some AT bindings that will fit nearly ANY mountaineering boot or AT boot easily. They are very simple and not to many $$$, but don't ski very well from what I've heard, and that problem would be magnified by the relative softness, and low cut of most mountaineering boots.
The lightest AT rig on the market are the dynafits.
You can buy boot, binding, and even ski all from dynafit. They are super light and ski really well (unless you feel the need to drop huge cliffs). But they are expensive, complicated, and need a dynafit compatable boot.
There are also a miriad of other AT boots and some other binding options too, but I have little experience with those.
That's what I know about it all. The tradeoffs are usually
light weight / better performance
and
boot versatility / ski performance
and
cheap sticker / ski performance
decide what's important to you and then go shopping. Have fun dude.
|
|
|
|
|
elvislegs
Oct 9, 2002, 10:40 PM
Post #4 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2002
Posts: 3148
|
Also you can try these great sites to get more info:
http://telemarktips.com
http://www.couloirmag.com
Later
|
|
|
|
|
agrauch
Oct 10, 2002, 4:32 PM
Post #5 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2001
Posts: 217
|
brad,
If your planned approaches and tours aren't going to involve major amounts of steep terrain, your mountaineering boots should suffice. Get a pair of Silverettas, mount them on a pair of short skis, and you'll be kicking ass on the way to the ice.
If you are going to do anything involving serious amounts of turning you'll need something else. Mountaineering boots are way to soft to crank turns on anything but moderate slopes. Some of my more miserable moments on skis have been while descending steep pitches wearing a pair of Lowa Civettas.
All of the ski mountaineering I've done has been on tele boards. My T-2's work fine for kicking steps and scrambling up ridgelines. Can't say that I'd want to do any real climbing in them.
|
|
|
|
|
raybo
Oct 10, 2002, 6:33 PM
Post #6 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 25
|
Brad,
I was in your same situation last year. I chose the Scarpa Laser boots and Dynafit bindings on K2 randonee skis. I love this setup. I use Grivel G12 crampons on the boots. I haven't done any waterfall ice, only steep frozen snow climbs. Took this set-up to the top of Mt. Shasta in June and skied virtually to the cars. I have hiked 2+ miles in the boots to get to the snow, and the boots are surprisingly comfortable (although a bit warm). We scrambled through boulders to the top of Mt. Dade after the snow ran out, and the boots worked great. I have spent more than 3 days straight in the boots winter touring with no problems, although I am buying down booties for this year, and planning for longer trips. We also ski this set up at the resorts, although it is a little light if you are into serious mogul bashing.
This gear is the most fun, versatile gear I have ever spent money on. I can't wait for winter!
|
|
|
|
|
coclimber26
Oct 13, 2002, 6:38 PM
Post #7 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2002
Posts: 928
|
I've used the Scarpa denali for AT. It's a little stiff for climbing but it's great for the downhill. I also have a set of leather LaSportiva nepals that I climb in alot. They are comfy to tour in but don't lock forward for the downhill. I have skied downhill several times in the leathers and as long as it's not too technical it's not that bad.
|
|
|
|
|
mainline
Oct 15, 2002, 3:01 AM
Post #8 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 30, 2002
Posts: 161
|
For several years I ski-mountaineered strictly on tele gear. I used Scarpa T1's and BD sabertooth crampons. Last year I decided to give AT a try and I haven't touched my tele gear since.
As far as I can tell all current tele and At boots are compatible with step in crampons. I have climbed water ice in both types of boots, and I found that the toe welt on tele boots is so long that it moves your foot further from the ice while front pointing. This can feel a little awkward.
When climbing without crampons, tele boots are significantly less secure than AT boots because they flex so much above the toe. This also causes greater calf fatigue when climbing rock or steep snow. Tele boots are adequately stiff when semi rigid or rigid crampons are attached.
Making telemark turns requires significantly more energy then AT turns. Even if you make alpine turns in your tele gear, it requires energy and bad form to keep from going over the "handlebars". If you are just getting started and you want to climb and ski steep terrain, I highly recommend an AT setup.
Personally I use Scarpa Denalis with Fritschi Freeride bindings, and Atomic 10EX skis. It's a heavy setup, but it rules on the downhill.
Supposedly, there is a hybrid binding coming out that can be set for tele or alpine turning. I would give it some time before trying out so that they can work the bugs out.
[ This Message was edited by: mainline on 2002-10-14 23:31 ]
[ This Message was edited by: mainline on 2002-10-31 21:17 ]
|
|
|
|
|
rockprodigy
Oct 17, 2002, 1:40 PM
Post #9 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540
|
Dude, I was in the same boat a couple years ago...I knew I needed some skis, but I knew nothing about them. Now I know a lot more.
It's like anything, you have to make compromises. You need to decide if you're mostly skiing with a little climbing, or mostly climbing with a little skiing. If you're doing any technical climbing, you gotta have climbing boots...ski boots won't cut it, they're too big, not sensitive, not flexible. So if you go with climbing boots, you'll need Silveretta bindings. I got the 400's and they're Kick-Ass..super light and they work sweet. If you hate to compromise, like myself...get two pairs of boots...I use Scarpa Invernos for climbing, but I also have some Scarpa Titans (AT boots) for days when I'm just skiing. The Invernos ski like crap, but it's only a big problem in crappy snow. Like I said...you have to decide what's important to you, the climbing or the skiing. Sometimes, I'll brink ankle braces with me and put them on for the ride down...that stiffens them up a bunch so the ski a lot better.
The beauty of the Silveretta system is that it accepts both types of boots, so you can have your cake and eat it too!
I can't imagine anyone seriously climbing in teleboots. You would have to know nothing about climbing, or be on stupidly easy terrain. Besides, you don't want to tele with a 40-50 lbs pack on. Yikes!
|
|
|
|
|
mainline
Oct 23, 2002, 5:08 AM
Post #10 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 30, 2002
Posts: 161
|
I've tele'd with a 50 lb pack on before. It's a quad burner for sure, but it gets you down a lot faster than walking. Besides, you usually don't bring all that gear to the top of the mountain. A lot stays at your base camp. Of course Alpine Touring gear is easier to ski on than tele when you have a heavy pack on.
|
|
|
|
|
jhump
Oct 23, 2002, 2:48 PM
Post #11 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 7, 2002
Posts: 602
|
I have lots of downhill experience, but no touring exp. What is a good rig for my Koflach Arctis Expe boots for skiing up the West Butt on Denali? Since I have not skied on a glacier, should I consider snowshoes, or just hiking?
|
|
|
|
|
bluesky
Oct 23, 2002, 3:59 PM
Post #12 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 14, 2002
Posts: 296
|
Brad - I 2nd mtngeo's comments, probably best to stick with an AT setup if you have any downhill experience. I was in your boat also and put silveretta 404's on a cheap old pair of downhill boards. These bindings are so bomber if you 'want a binding you will have to will to your grand children this is it.'
They ski decently - only have a release in the back, but I use them mostly for touring anyway. I use my plastics. I took this set up on a trip to Mt. Blackburn in AK.
Jhump - My preference would be a simple AT setup over snowshoes for an AK trip. I don't think it is too hard to learn how to tour in AK with this setup, just be sure to practice arresting before you get out there.
|
|
|
|
|
agrauch
Oct 23, 2002, 4:50 PM
Post #13 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2001
Posts: 217
|
Since I haven't done the West Butt, I'm not sure which is best choice for the approach.
For approaches in general, I'll ski rather than snowshoe any day. Skiing is faster and more energy efficient, but it does require more skill. Unless you know for sure that there is a good boot pack all the way to your destination, forget about hiking. Postholing sucks.
I use a pair of 160 Karhu Catamounts mounted with Silveretta 400's. Catamounts are wide, metal edged backcountry touring skis. I got them short so they'd be easier to control with mountaineering boots. Like Jesse said, Silverettas are bomber and tour well. They also fit a wide variety of mountaineering boots.
If you go with a touring ski instead of an old pair of downhill skis, you will be skinning a lot less which saves energy. You can glide nicely on mellow terrain and ski right up little hills. Karhu doesn't make the Catamount any more, but the Orion looks to be about the same.
|
|
|
|
|
raybo
Oct 23, 2002, 5:08 PM
Post #14 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 25
|
jhump,
It doesn't take long to get the hang of ski touring, and it beats the hell out of walking. Check out the successor to the Atomic Tour Guide skis, not sure of their current name. They are one of the lightest and least expensive skis on the market. Not a number one choice if you are looking to do a lot of downhill turns, but they ski fine and the light weight will be appreciated when you are carrying them. Aslo, if you are only using them as an approach ski, the low (relatively speaking, of course) price is nice.
|
|
|
|
|
coclimber26
Oct 31, 2002, 3:22 AM
Post #15 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2002
Posts: 928
|
The system the army uses for AT is the Scarpa inverno boots which are good all around mountaineering boots with removable liners. Not the best for downhill but oh well. K2 ascent skis with Silveretta 404 bindings. This package works well. The Tua skis are used aswell..
|
|
|
|
|
rockprodigy
Oct 31, 2002, 11:14 PM
Post #16 of 16
(3289 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540
|
I have the Silvretta 500's...not 400's. I used them, the Atomic Tour guide Super Lites and Scarpa invernos on Denali. They were sweet. If you're only going to use them for denali, rent some or use snowshoes, cause they're gonna set you back about $700 which ain't worth it for not even 10 miles of skiing.
[ This Message was edited by: rockprodigy on 2002-11-04 08:01 ]
|
|
|
|
|
|
