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kane_schutzman
Oct 2, 2007, 11:03 PM
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http://www.abc-of-mountaineering.com/articles/mountaineeringlayeringsystem.asp
This is the system everyone follows, correct?
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shimanilami
Oct 2, 2007, 11:29 PM
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The base layer goes on the inside!? Man, I've been doing it completely backwards all these years. No wonder I get all those funny looks ...
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rocknice2
Oct 2, 2007, 11:48 PM
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kane_schutzman wrote: http://www.abc-of-mountaineering.com/articles/mountaineeringlayeringsystem.asp This is the system everyone follows, correct?
No most people make a clickable link
I'm fucking tired of highlight , copy , open new page , paste , click go
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sidepull
Oct 3, 2007, 12:05 AM
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more or less.
like most gear whores, i have more jackets than seasons so usually I pick the correct one or two layers for a given situation. however, if i'm back country for a week or two then it looks more like what's pictured.
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climbingaggie03
Oct 3, 2007, 12:27 AM
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Basically, but it's not hard and fast.
Depending on the situation, sometimes I put an insulating layer over my wind layer. Theres also soft shells that can bridge the gap between an insulation layer and a shell layer if conditions are not full on. Sometimes I put my down over my shell if I'm just stopping for a little while and I don't want my down under my shell. (usually this is in cold and windy, but not precipitating conditions)
I rarely do anything in hard shells unless the rain or snow is really coming down.
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kane_schutzman
Oct 3, 2007, 1:03 AM
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Ok,
So I asked alot about this before, but last two times I went up Baker in a $15-fleece pants from Walmart. The first my softshell was completely soacked in 2 days. With winter coming, I know the fleece/cotten pants arent going to work. I know alot of that is just bad choice on my part, I accept that.
Anyways, more questions.
I think I am sold on the Smartwool/icebreaker/ibex/merino wool type baselayer. Actually why am I sold? I just heard that they are the way to go, and the few poly products I have, I hate. What do you guys think of them? Also, when buying the baselayer there is light, heavy, and middle weight. Do I want to get lighter for the legs and heavier for the top?
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stymingersfink
Oct 3, 2007, 2:13 AM
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rocknice2 wrote: No most people make a clickable link I'm fucking tired of highlight , copy , open new page , paste , click go
I like it even more when people hide the url, kind of like this
those who need to learn some of the basics of posting (or, dare I say, baselayers??), click the quote button and study the tagging.
ALWAYS aspire to better yourself.
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climbingaggie03
Oct 3, 2007, 3:58 AM
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Ok, so first of all, the pacific northwest is not the place for softshells. Colorado, Utah ect where the snow is relatively dry is where soft shells really excel.
So for base layers (all mine are synthetic which is superior IMO) I own a few short sleeve T shirts, a light weight long sleeve T shirt and A mid weight longs sleeve t-shirt.
I almost always put the short sleeve t-shirt on first, that way if it gets hot, I can strip all my other layers off, and it adds a bit of warmth and is wicking. From there I taylor my layers to what I'm doing and the weather, if I know it's going to be cold and I'm not going to over heat, then I put on my mid weight layer, if I think it will be warmer, then I put on my light weight layer, or just throw a fleece layer on until I warm up.
The reason we use layers is so that you can adjust to the conditions, in a perfect world you should never get wet and always be the perfect temperature. Things happen though, you work too hard without taking off layers, get caugth in precip and can't (or don't want to) put your shell on. That's why we use synthetics. Wool is ok, some people swear by it, some people swear about it, I'm kinda indifferent, I haven't used it, so I don't really know, but it is the best/only natural fiber that you can wear if you decide to go that route.
I have lighter weight long underwear pants that are good if it's not too cold, if it gets colder I can add fleece pants, or another layer of long underwear. I usually wear less on my legs than on my upper body. YMMV
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divnamite
Oct 3, 2007, 5:24 PM
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Registered: Feb 20, 2007
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It's not hard and fast. My base layer is polypro. Smell is the only problem, my partners generally don't care. If one travel on ice or harsh snow, the person should never expose skins because self-arrest will destroy skins. So no t-shirt as only layer for me anyway. I don't like fleece jacket because I feel they are too heavy. Patagonia micropuff or any puff vest offers better weight/performance for me. I don't wear softshell unless it's small wet snow. I generally carry these items:
1. Underlayer (light and mid weight)
2. Puff vest or puffy jacket
3. Waterproof jacket (sometime I replace with softshell for short trips)
4. Insulation layer (this goes over everything)
5. Gloves/hats/etc.
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paulraphael
Oct 3, 2007, 6:07 PM
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Registered: Feb 6, 2004
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that article basically shows the 1980s way. most climbers i know use a much more streamlined approach.
the trouble with the 80s way is that adding or subtracting insulation requires taking off the shell (and probably your harness) doing your thing, and then putting the shell back on again. a real pain. Also, hardshell fabrics, at least for jackets, tend to be heavier and much less breathable than the alternatives.
a simpler approach is to put a light, breathable shell (or schoeller-type thing) over your base layers. this is your go suit. it's warm enough to climb in under most circumstances. then when you stop to belay, you throw a fat insulated jacket over the top of everything. if it's really cold (like alaska or canada cold) you might need insulated pants, too.
i started doing it this way four or five years ago, and i haven't looked back, at least in the winter. for summer climbing the temperature swings are larger and i sometimes layer with fleece, but my hardshell jacket rarely gets use in the mountains anymore. i use it around town, or on ice climbs where i anticipate getting completely drenched.
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paintrain
Oct 4, 2007, 11:21 PM
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Registered: Feb 17, 2004
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Luckily, we don't go out when it is raining in Utah, since it doesn't happen too often. And we don't ski unless it is champagne powder (which is almost everytime it snows).
Don't knock softshells for the wet weather. If it isn't actively snowing or raining hard they work well. If you are aerobically putting out, you will be sweating and goretex clams up on the inside with perspiration when it is raining. It is simple gradient chemistry/physics - there is no gradient to drive out the moisture. You will be wet with sweat unless you are completely standing still. If you are in constant motion, you will generate your own warmth. If you are climbing you will be bailing and heading home most likely if it is raining and snowing. For multiday stuff where you are in motion - make sure your insulation is synthetic or wool or you will get cold, cause your gonna be wet. Make sure your sleeping bag and extra layers are in plastic bags.
I base layer a t-shirt, light softshell/wind shirt for wind protection, then insulation (down/primaloft) if needed or wet protection (goretex) if needed.
I generally don't use fleece much anymore except as a base layer when it is cold. It doesn't pack worth a damn and is heavy. I have replaced my fleece jackets and vests with primaloft ones.
Legs are a tough one. If you aren't moving much, more insulation. If you are active then less. I tend to err on the side of more, since taking on and off layers is difficult in a harness and you can control your top layers more easily.
I like wool. Especially when you fly when room is an issue. You can wear it out on the town or in the mountains. Fashionable and functional.
PT
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gargrantuan
Oct 5, 2007, 9:42 PM
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Registered: Apr 1, 2005
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i live in canada, in the rockies, so what works for me may not work in the cascades or the coast range.
base layer- polypro boxers, followed by polypro long underwear, wool socks, nike dri-fit top (one of the best pieces of clothing i've ever owned), with a polypro shirt over the top (i LOVE nike sphere dry)
insulation- fleece pants if its cold, fleece jacket or pile shirt, fleece vest or patagonia synthetic vest, etc etc.
shells- schoeller pants, if its windy, wet, or cold then i'll put eVent pants on over top, and a hard shell/softshell jacket.
belay coats- i have a marmot flurry jacket for when it is close to freezing and/or wet. i have 700 fill down for when it drops below -15oC. belay coats ALWAYS go on over everything else.
i have based this system on Mark Twight's "action suit" theory as explained in his book. climb wearing very little and put on the insulation when you stop.
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