Oct 4, 2007, 12:51 PM
Post #4 of 20
(1505 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 95
Re: [moose_droppings] First Aid for climbers, what do you think
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
moose_droppings wrote:
Ideally it would be nice if everyone was trained, not just climbers. But I clicked the first choice anyway.
Exactly what I was going to say. It would be nice if there was a way to make basic first aid courses mandatory to everyone. Climbers (or anyone who lvies a life that is more dangerous than the average joe) should definately know what to do in a shitty situation.
Oct 4, 2007, 1:37 PM
Post #5 of 20
(1478 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 10
Re: [majid_sabet] First Aid for climbers, what do you think
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
Everyone should be trained, preferably wilderness specific and at least a 40 hour course. It's been my experience that when things go bad in climbing, they usually go really bad or they don't really need your help(minor cuts and such).
Oct 4, 2007, 8:55 PM
Post #8 of 20
(1387 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
Re: [dr_feelgood] First Aid for climbers, what do you think
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
Setting aside personal motivation and desire for a moment (what I or you might want to do) and considering climbers as a group?
Not everyone is capable of providing FA, trained or not. That's the first hurdle. A certain % of people will be ineffective providing assistance no matter how hard they try, for a variety of reasons from aptitude to physical limitations to phobias.
Of those capable of actually providing some sort of assistance only a small % of them will be able to provide true emergency first aid treatment when and where its really needed.
My opinion is this: its unreasonable to expect a majority of climbers to take a wilderness EMT or First Responder course. It is FAR MORE unreasonable to expect all those who take such courses to be able to provide the treatment they studied.
Mandatory or not, I think you'd end up with the same tiny list of folks who can truly render aid in a medical emergency.
Aside from clearing airways and what have you the best item in the FA kit is the cell phone, imo.
Oct 5, 2007, 8:24 PM
Post #11 of 20
(1294 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2007
Posts: 166
Re: [norm1057] First Aid for climbers, what do you think
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
Maybe in New Mexico you're the only EMT there, but where I climb there's plenty at the crag. Me and most of the people I climb with are EMT's and the technical rescue team I'm on trains at the local crags as well so not only could you receive proper first aid, but there would be enough gear and equipment there to do any sort of mountain rescue or extrication necessary. All we'd need is an ambulance and that's just a phonecall or radio transmission away.
Ideally though it'd be nice for people to have the basics (ABC's) but as mentioned before, if you're not medically trained, at least be smart enough to call for someone that is.
Oct 5, 2007, 9:02 PM
Post #12 of 20
(1277 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2266
Re: [ClusterFock] First Aid for climbers, what do you think
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
ClusterFock wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
Ideally it would be nice if everyone was trained, not just climbers. But I clicked the first choice anyway.
Exactly what I was going to say. It would be nice if there was a way to make basic first aid courses mandatory to everyone.
Please don't ever suggest to anyone in a land-manager or access-controlling capacity that climbers must meet a FA criterion. That's a big step down a slippery "certification to climb" slope that benefits no one except possibly the folks who make money running the training and cert. machine. I mean, why stop at requiring FA credentials? How about some CLIMBING training? Maybe 2 years of following multipitch before you can lead. Maybe another 2 years of leading before you can onsight. Then add another 5 years before you can climb anything unpublished?
Oct 5, 2007, 9:20 PM
Post #13 of 20
(1267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043
Re: [majid_sabet] First Aid for climbers, what do you think
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
I just hope that everybody besides me is trained so that when I deck, everyone can come to my rescue. Another positive aspect of this arrangement is that if someone else decks, then all the do-gooders can go to the rescue while I selfishly continue to climb.
Except, of course, if it's you who decks, Majid. Then I'll be there - with my magnets, acupuncture needles, and herbs - to re-align your humours and cast off demons that may have entered your body during your time of weakness.
I was lucky that there was a person there that knew 1st aid AND was composed while we waited for the ambulance to arrive. My fracture was visually shocking, which upset some people that showed up to help. These people helped in other ways, like guiding the ambulance crew to the accident site. A good 1st aider is great but a good 'site manager' is also great. People other than 1st aiders are needed when an accident happens. As others have said, not all people are good 1st aiders, but can be used in others ways when an accident happens.
BTW: I am back climbing. though on easy grades.........so far
Not everyone is capable of providing FA, trained or not. That's the first hurdle. A certain % of people will be ineffective providing assistance no matter how hard they try, for a variety of reasons from aptitude to physical limitations to phobias.
Of those capable of actually providing some sort of assistance only a small % of them will be able to provide true emergency first aid treatment when and where its really needed.
I agree with the gist of that, but for different reasons than those cited in the first paragraph. Under pressure, I think a lot of people will forget what they learned. However, I don't think that's a decent excuse not to seek some sort of training. I picked the first.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Oct 6, 2007, 2:47 AM)
Oct 6, 2007, 5:29 AM
Post #19 of 20
(1196 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2006
Posts: 125
Re: [moose_droppings] First Aid for climbers, what do you think
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
I dont think taht first aid should be required at all, that could end up leading to bad things. although it would be nice if all climbers had some basic common sense/intuition, in that if something does go wrong, they know who to call, what info to give, etc. there are a lot of things that a person can do who doesnt know first aid, that will help the situation and the patient or the rescuers
I'm a WFR and I work in a hospital, I don't think there's much need for climbers to have FA training, I think FA training for anyone is a good idea, but I don't think it's any more important for climbers than the rest of the population.
I've seen and helped at alot more car wrecks than I have climbing accidents, maybe we should incorporate FA training into Drivers Education.