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Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope?
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throb


Oct 19, 2007, 6:40 AM
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Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope?
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Does 6mm seem to small? Does it hurt to pull on vs. 7mm and how much worse does it tangle?


andypro


Oct 19, 2007, 6:56 AM
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Re: [throb] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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I'm confused. Are you going to rap on the 6mm as well as the full size rope? Or are you jsut rapping on the full size rope, and using the 6mm to pull?

The larger the difference in diameter, the more issues you're going to have if you rap on both strands at once.

6mm is kinda small, too. But that's just my opinion. Hardcore alpinists do it. Personally, I'd rather thave that extra mm. Makes things more versatile.

--Andy P


billl7


Oct 19, 2007, 7:06 AM
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Re: [throb] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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I only have one experience but it was recent and spanned 3 raps ...

Pain: Used my belay gloves to pull the 6 mm line. No pain.
Tangle: Yes, it seemed more prone to tangle but this was in comparison to a 10+ mm rope. That said, there was some recent research (rope, string, etc. tumbled in a box) that confirmed that stiffer lines don't tangle as much. But common sense would say the same. So I guess a 7mm line may actually tangle more than a stiffer 6mm (e.g., different materials).

Either way, I would suggest going with a static tag line as pulling won't involve as much effort. Also note that, on a rap and with everything initially even, you probably will come to the end of the 60 meter static tag line before coming to the end of the 60 meter dynamic lead rope (not that this is a show stopper).

Bill L


billl7


Oct 19, 2007, 5:46 PM
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Re: [throb] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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There is a really good discussion about this here:

Rap rope question


tomcat


Oct 20, 2007, 4:43 AM
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Re: [billl7] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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9.5 + 7.0 = 16.5 mm of rope.8.5+8.5= 17.0mm of rope that is the same size,so raps easier,no jammed knot tricks or useless cord being dragged around the mountains.You have a completely functional second line in case a rock cuts one,core shot,wandering line.


billl7


Oct 20, 2007, 5:44 AM
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Re: [tomcat] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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tomcat wrote:
9.5 + 7.0 = 16.5 mm of rope.8.5+8.5= 17.0mm of rope that is the same size,so raps easier,no jammed knot tricks or useless cord being dragged around the mountains.You have a completely functional second line in case a rock cuts one,core shot,wandering line.
Heh, 10.2 + 6.0 = 16.2.Wink
Edit: Continuing on this simplistic tangent, volume is a better metric and in that case a 10.2/6.0 combo and your 8.5/8.5 are pretty darn close.


(This post was edited by billl7 on Oct 20, 2007, 5:49 AM)


tomcat


Oct 20, 2007, 10:19 AM
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Re: [billl7] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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Except you have just one lead rope.At 6mm it appears some people are just pulling the fat line with the skinny vs.rapping on both.If you are rapping from a sling anchor,or off a tree,god forbid,the jammed knot thing is out the window.This is posted in the trad forum,so I expect we are talking trad here,not getting off 200 foot sport routes.


billl7


Oct 20, 2007, 5:54 PM
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Re: [tomcat] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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You're right: just one lead rope. And for what it's worth, I rap on both.

I have heard about relying on the knot against a constriction in some circumstances. But the first time I heard about it concerned a fatal rap accident where the most likely cause was the knot slipping through a biner.

It's off-topic but I haven't made the switch from single to doubles. But it does seem like more and more of the folks I climb with use doubles.

Bill L


tomcat


Oct 21, 2007, 7:07 AM
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Re: [billl7] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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I apologize if I dragged that 6mm pull line aspect in here,I've been watching the same topic elsewhere and don't always keep them straight.I'd have to rap on both or spend so much on shorts and toilet paper it would offset any savings.We do a lot of multi-pitch stuff and often you have a choice of a couple easy raps on two sixties or lesser anchors at closer intervals.


billl7


Oct 21, 2007, 7:15 AM
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Re: [tomcat] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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No worries. Good topics.


getsomeethics


Oct 21, 2007, 5:26 PM
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Re: [throb] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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go with the 6mm.

my first 60m pull line was 4mm, and it sucked so much ass. sure it was light and fit in a small stuff sack, but sucked!!

used it mostly on single 60m raps and that was fine, a little hard to get going and by the end your hand had marks around it but it was tolerable.

then i was forced to use it on nine 60m raps.....promptly replaced it with 6mm!!


healyje


Oct 27, 2007, 10:32 PM
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Re: [throb] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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How about just climbing on 7.x twins and skip the pull line. Twin / half ropes are getting so skinny these day it seems like it would just be smarter to use a set of them.


rocknice2


Oct 27, 2007, 11:21 PM
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Re: [healyje] Pros vs. cons of 6mm vs. 7mm for a double rope rap pull down rope? [In reply to]
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If your doing multi pitch screw the 6mm tag line. If for some reason the rope gets stuck your fucked. You can't lead on that 6mm.
Plus you will always need to put the fatter rope through the rings or else the system will slip. That means you pull on skinny rope, catch the whole mess and then thread the fatter rope through the rap rings.
Doubles rule on multipitch.
I even use them on some multipitch sport routes.


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