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primus
Oct 23, 2007, 12:18 AM
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Yes, I know this question has been asked, but it was in Gear Heads and not here and I figured I'd get a better response from those specifically checking the Alpine & Ice thread. Besides, I wasn't the OP of the other thread, so...
Ah-hem...
Ok, so I'm new to ice/mixed, but this season I'm looking to go more. I've been out only a handful of times and really enjoyed it. I have the opportunity to get some Petzl gear at a schweeeet price and am wondering which way to go: Nomic or Quark? I don't see myself doing any real long routes anytime soon, mostly toproping local ice and mixed--probably an even balance between the two. I'm game to lead bolted ice routes, but leading on ice seems quite a bit more sketchy to me...
I think I have actually climbed using the Quark--can't remember though. One tool that I climbed on that I did like was the Cassein (Mirage?). Seems to swing and stick real nice. I've also tried a pair of Reactors: I only climbed one ice route (had trouble sticking it, probably just not used to how it swings), and one mixed route (dropped the damn thing) but aside from that, it performed well. I also tried some others, but I can't remember the name/model.
I'm more leaning toward the Quarks for two reasons: hammer and adze are options and it has leashes (go ahead, call me a puss). Or should leashes be a factor? Is it best to just start leashless? Ok, must stop now; too many questions. Thanks!
(This post was edited by primus on Oct 23, 2007, 12:18 AM)
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anykineclimb
Oct 23, 2007, 1:26 AM
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Both tools have the option of going with leashes. If you think you'll need hammers/ adzes, go with the quarks as theres no way to put them on nomics.
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rhythm164
Oct 23, 2007, 1:41 AM
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I havn't climbed the Nomics, but I've had the Quarks for a couple seasons and really like them. They would probably be better all around, the Nomic is more of a mixed tool. I've used the Quarks on hard ice and mixed routes and have been really pleased both ways.
cheers,
A
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mattb1921
Oct 23, 2007, 2:35 AM
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I like the Quarks they are a good tool and you can't go wrong if you need an adze or hammer. I climbed all of last season with the Nomics and have to say that I love them. If you are looking to try mixed they are a great tool. If you remove the weights on the heads they feel real light and make things a little easier. The pics are setup for drytooling and take some modifying to get them to stick without the weights. As someone else stated you can get leashes on both. If you get some time under your belt you will feel fine on multipitch routes without the leashes. Makes for quick screw placement.
I see that you are from New Mexico. You mentioned that you were playing on local stuff. I live in Albuquerque and have seen very little ice here in New Mexico. You know something I don't? I spend every weekend up in the Ouray/Silverton area and would love stuff to jump on here locally. I have seen some stuff in Taos in years past that looked ok.
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primus
Oct 23, 2007, 2:18 PM
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mattb1921 wrote: I like the Quarks they are a good tool and you can't go wrong if you need an adze or hammer. I climbed all of last season with the Nomics and have to say that I love them. If you are looking to try mixed they are a great tool. If you remove the weights on the heads they feel real light and make things a little easier. The pics are setup for drytooling and take some modifying to get them to stick without the weights. As someone else stated you can get leashes on both. If you get some time under your belt you will feel fine on multipitch routes without the leashes. Makes for quick screw placement.
Thanks everyone for the advice. It looks like either tool would work well for me. I think this season I should make my first investment in some mountaineering boots and get some more mileage in so I can have a better feel for what kind of tool I need, then invest in the tools.
mattb1921 wrote: I see that you are from New Mexico. You mentioned that you were playing on local stuff. I live in Albuquerque and have seen very little ice here in New Mexico. You know something I don't? I spend every weekend up in the Ouray/Silverton area and would love stuff to jump on here locally. I have seen some stuff in Taos in years past that looked ok.
No, you're not missing anything--I would certainly not call this area a destination for ice climbing. Most of the folks I know head north to Wolf Creek, Ouray, Silverton, etc. to get on long, quality formations.
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furrymurry
Oct 24, 2007, 4:04 PM
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I agree largely with Matt.
I have Quarks and love them. I climb leashless with the pinky rest. On longer routes I have a bungee-umbilical that I made, to be sure I don't drop them.
I also really like the Nomics. I've climbed with them a bit and I really enjoy them. That said, I wouldn't want them as my primary tool because I do a lot of alpine-oriented stuff, and I can climb leashless just fine with my Quarks.
Since you say you're going to be doing mostly single pitch stuff I might recommend going with the Nomic.
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gargrantuan
Oct 24, 2007, 10:02 PM
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i dropped a quark this week in the alpine and replaced it with a set of nomics. i'll now have to bring a pin hammer for mixed routes and i'll probably end up making some kind of umbilical system for them so that i don't lose another one.
if i need a tool for plunging i'll set up the quark with an adze (its more comfy to carry) and bring it as a third.
dropping tools sucks.
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weasel
Oct 26, 2007, 2:57 AM
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primus wrote: ...should leashes be a factor? Is it best to just start leashless? Ok, must stop now; too many questions. Thanks!
One thing I'll say right off the bat, is that I started ice climbing leashless and have been literally unable to switch to leashes. I've been ice climbing for 3 years now and have climbed a total of maybe 2 and a half pitches total with leashes on. I absolutely cannot stand it. Leashless climbing offers a range of possiblities and freedom unmatched by traditional leashed climbing.
...In my opinion.
I know others may disagree, but of course, this is just my experience. I'll admit I get pumped out of my mind on some of the longer routes, but I still seem to be unable to give up the freedom of leashless for the security of leashes.
As far as tool selection goes, I still have my first pair of tools, the Quark Ergos. And I LOVE them. They just swing themselves. I've also climbed on the traditional Quarks, and they swing basically the same. Just splendid tools.
As far as your decision goes, I think you have to decide what you'll be climbing more of. If you're climbing mostly waterfall ice and even THINKING of doing some alpine stuff, Quarks, hands down. But if you want to get on the mixed climbing bandwagon, you'd be better off with the Nomics.
Duh, right?
Either tool you go with though, I'd strongly suggest you go leashless. It's just more fun.
Have fun out there! And be safe! And if you're in Durango for a night, send me a PM and we'll grab a beer.
Peace
-E
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paintrain
Oct 26, 2007, 3:45 AM
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primus wrote: ....I'm game to lead bolted ice routes, but leading on ice seems quite a bit more sketchy to me...
Where are these mystical lands of bolted Ice climbs which you speak????
If you are fit, go leashless (ie climb in gym a lot). If you progress into the alpine world, you can invest in plungeable tools. If you aren't generally fit go for the leash.
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primus
Oct 26, 2007, 4:37 AM
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paintrain wrote: primus wrote: ....I'm game to lead bolted ice routes, but leading on ice seems quite a bit more sketchy to me... If you are fit, go leashless (ie climb in gym a lot). If you progress into the alpine world, you can invest in plungeable tools. If you aren't generally fit go for the leash.
 DOH! My bad. lol Yes, bolted ice routes would be a find indeed. I meant leading bolted mixed routes. I'm certain that given more experience I'll lead on ice, but it is more risky, so that's my catch.
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timd
Nov 10, 2007, 10:44 AM
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I say Nomic. The curve of those bad boys are great for hooking (So is Paris Hilton, but the money would be better spent on the Nomics).
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adeptus
Nov 13, 2007, 11:12 AM
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Do any of you nomic climbers have experience with them on alpine terrain? How do they plunge? Is it at all possible to hammer a pin?
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andypro
Nov 13, 2007, 1:15 PM
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I've never used the nomic, but it doesn't have a hammer. It also has an "ergonomic leashless handle". I suppose it could plunge int he kind of snow you wouldn't want to plung in to begin with, but I dont see the point. (no pun intended! hehe...ok..yes it was.  )
--Andy P
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adeptus
Nov 13, 2007, 5:10 PM
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Well, I've climbed some really techincal alpine routes with a pair of BD Fusions and they work fine. If the snow was too hard for plungin, it was firm enough for the the pick, in fact it was an advantage for really loose snow..
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the_climber
Nov 13, 2007, 5:31 PM
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I've used my Grivel Taa-k-oons on a number Winter Ice routes reaching into the alpine with extensive snow climbing on-route to the upper pitches. An ergonomic grip is not ideal for plunging... but it is possible, the Taa-k-oons sans grip plunges somewhat better. In looser snow the extra surface area is nice when plunging though, and I would agree if the snow is to firm for plunging chances are your picks will give you 'adequate' (not to say bomber) purchace. If someone was looking to use them on a more general alpine route, well there are better suited tools than leashless for those routes.
FYI the geometry of the Taa-k-oons and Nomics are within a millimeter or two of eachother, only real differences are handle, weight and weight distribution. I however carry pins on many routes and thus have tools with hammers firmly bolted on... and well used.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Nov 13, 2007, 5:33 PM)
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gargrantuan
Nov 13, 2007, 9:12 PM
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adeptus wrote: Do any of you nomic climbers have experience with them on alpine terrain? How do they plunge? Is it at all possible to hammer a pin?
i just bring a pin hammer now, or if i know that i'm going to need a tool for plunging i'll bring a quark and forget the hammer. the biggest downfall to using nomics to climb anything less than steep stuff is that they pretty much suck to carry and plunge mostly due to the spikes on the top of the pick.
my system isn't dialed yet but i am making it work. i'll probably just end up getting another quark to use solely for the alpine when i can afford it. but for this season i'll work with nomics and a quark or nomics and a hammer.
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pyramid
Nov 15, 2007, 3:03 PM
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You people are apparently quite bored if your having this discussion. The solution is obvious, buy both sets then you'll be good for the next decade.
Dropping a tool is a no no. Hating leashes is like hating fat chicks, they're good in a pinch.
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gargrantuan
Nov 15, 2007, 7:16 PM
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what discussion should we be having on an internet forum? how much of a dipshit you are? or maybe we should discuss how you like nailing fat chicks (whatever floats your boat, loverboy)?
the discussion started because someone wanted advice as to which tools they should buy. many people cannot afford to run two sets of tools and now we're having a discussion about what do if you have nomics and need to place pins.
and thanks for pointing out that dropping tools is a no-no; this whole time i've been under the impression that its cool as long as you can afford to replace it. thank god we cleared that up!
(This post was edited by gargrantuan on Nov 15, 2007, 7:17 PM)
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