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Poll: Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
Absolutely Stupid!!!!! why would anyone do that 4 / 6%
Depends 8 / 12%
Ok 3 / 5%
Totally Ok 11 / 17%
Do it all the time 40 / 61%
66 total votes
 

evanwish


Oct 26, 2007, 7:11 PM
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tylerandapril


Oct 26, 2007, 7:26 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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That is acceptable.


rjtrials


Oct 26, 2007, 7:27 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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I know this is probably a troll, but I have run into some similarly noob-tastic climbers at the crag.

I'm not sure exactly what you were told about anchor building, but clipping two draws is pretty much THE way to set up an anchor if there are two bolts...

I routinely clean and/or lower off of one draw/bolt. So having two seems damn safe...

RJ


altelis


Oct 26, 2007, 7:50 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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dood, that iz wAAAY insane!
toteally stoopid as well!!!!!

you are going to die..
for shure!


Valarc


Oct 26, 2007, 8:05 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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If the bolts are close together and roughly the same height, two draws is fine and there's no reason to add the extra complexity of a sling. If they are far apart or at different heights, you'd want to equalize them.

Some people insist on at least 3 biners, or at least one locker and one regular biner, for their toprope anchors. I know John Long suggests something similar in Climbing Anchors. Personally, I keep a pair of draws made up with BD positron locking biners. It's not really necessary, but the difference in weight is negligible. Realize though, that if you go to a sport climbing crag and insist on using locking draws for your toprope anchors, you're likely to get laughed at ;)

Of course, that's all assuming this isn't a troll, which it probably is.


evanwish


Oct 26, 2007, 8:19 PM
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Re: [Valarc] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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Valarc wrote:
Of course, that's all assuming this isn't a troll, which it probably is.

Ok why would i be trolling about this??
This is my friend saying,
"oh it's only 40 feet, so if i F*** up nothings going to happen"

seriously


Azure


Oct 26, 2007, 8:32 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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Anyone ever stop to think that while you were leading the route you were relying on one non-locking biner? So yea, two(especially opposite and opposed) seems pretty safe to me.

The sling(with a half twist) would come into play if you wanted the anchor to self equalize.


evanwish


Oct 26, 2007, 8:39 PM
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Re: [Azure] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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Azure wrote:
The sling(with a half twist) would come into play if you wanted the anchor to self equalize.

Refering to:
SlidingX
lol


overlord


Oct 27, 2007, 3:17 AM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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it is possible to build a safe anchor with just draws. you just need to know how to do itWink


Jbitz


Oct 27, 2007, 8:32 AM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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For most routes I can see the anchor bolts from the ground so I decide what I want to bring up at that point...

If the bolts are close together and draws will be equalized when placed this is typically what I do. If they are at varying heights or wide apart I will bring up my homemade draws with 2 foot slings or some 4 foot slings and possibly use the sliding X. I am not to concerned about the use of lockers on the rope as long as the biners the rope goes through are opposite and opposed. Lockers are not a bad idea especially if contact with the bolts or rock could cause the gates to open. I also have a policy to not blindly trust bolt placements. I always try to evaluate my top anchors and try to set them up using the acronym SERNE- Solid, Equalized, Redundant and No Extension. This is not always 100% possible in each situation. I have even had a situation where I downclimbed a route because the top anchors bolts were just crap.

Another thing to consider is if the person is going to clean behind you or just wants to toprope. Often I will take the the last draw before the anchors and switch it over to the rope I am being lowered on as a backup.

Anyways, this is generally what I do and is not written in stone. Hopefully, what I wrote is helpful to someone. I have seen people do alot of messed up things, on sport routes or in setting up top rope anchors that I would not be comfortable with personally.

So, Evanwish what exactly bothers you about how your friend does it and what would you do different?


thomasribiere


Oct 28, 2007, 1:32 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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evanwish wrote:
My friend just called me telling me he's been climbing this sport route and his anchor consists of clipping the anchor bolts with quickdraws and simply clipping the rope into each one...

his argument is "well if you add a sling that's just one more thing to break isn't it?"

Does this sound TOTALLY INSANE and STUPID to anyone else?!?!?!

This is an excellent (quick, easy to do, secure) way to build a TEMPORARY anchor if your belayer wants to climb the route as well (lead or TR). But one day, you will have to retrieve your draws...


ilovecrimpers


Oct 28, 2007, 1:46 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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I agree it is an acceptable way if there are only a couple of people that are going to climb it after. If you are setting up to TR for a bigger group then locking biners and a sliding X is the best way to go. I've seen many situations where the anchor end of the draw has rubbed on the rock opening the gate, so just be aware of all possible dangers.


spoon


Oct 28, 2007, 3:09 PM
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Re: [ilovecrimpers] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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ilovecrimpers wrote:
I agree it is an acceptable way if there are only a couple of people that are going to climb it after...I've seen many situations where the anchor end of the draw has rubbed on the rock opening the gate,

last part first. Really, you've seen the rock open a gate many times? How many, and where? Did you see this from 75 feet below at the bottom of the route? If you really have seen this so many times then why do you consider it appropriate to set up an anchor in this way?


time2clmb


Oct 28, 2007, 3:26 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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I voted for "it depends", although I do use this set up quite often so I could have also voted for "I do it alot of the time". If the anchor is going to see repeated laps on it while people top rope then I add a couple lockers. If the anchors are off set then I use slings or cord or whatever I have....If they (anchor bolts) are close together and your buddy is going to either lead up or just go and clean then a couple draws are totally fine. Blah blah blah.............on and on.


evanwish


Oct 29, 2007, 10:52 PM
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Re: [time2clmb] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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if he just does the anchor with his two draws, and he belay's from the top where's he anchor himself in?


shockabuku


Oct 29, 2007, 11:05 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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evanwish wrote:
if he just does the anchor with his two draws, and he belay's from the top where's he anchor himself in?

You probably need to be more specific about the situation. I think most people infer that sport anchor = TR anchor on single pitch climb with subsequent belays given from the ground.

If you're belaying from the top either because you feel like it, it's multi-pitch bolted, or whatever, using two draws for the anchor is probably not the most efficient method available considering that most people also want to anchor themselves at the top. In that case, assuming bomber anchors, my personal preference is clove a biner on one of the bolts, clove another biner on the other bolt leaving a significant loop of slack between the bolts, and then figure eight back onto my belay loop with a locker. This forms a triangle that has tight lines from me to each bolt and a slack line between the bolts. Then I tie an eight or an overhand in the slack section and redirect from it; you can also belay direct off of this point with the proper type of belay device (i.e. BD ATC Gudie, Gri-Gri, etc) which someone will undoubtedly flame me for not recommending first. There are good reasons for belaying direct but, like I said, personal preference.


vegastradguy


Oct 29, 2007, 11:36 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.

it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.


shockabuku


Oct 30, 2007, 12:06 AM
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Re: [vegastradguy] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.

it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.

The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?


(This post was edited by shockabuku on Oct 30, 2007, 6:50 AM)


vegastradguy


Oct 30, 2007, 9:53 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.

it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.

The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?

well, i wouldnt. not on a sport climb.


shockabuku


Oct 30, 2007, 9:57 AM
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Re: [vegastradguy] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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vegastradguy wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.

it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.

The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?

well, i wouldnt. not on a sport climb.

So what method would you recommend for someone who chose to?


(This post was edited by shockabuku on Oct 30, 2007, 2:16 PM)


Jbitz


Oct 30, 2007, 6:59 PM
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Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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I think you need to have him explain again what he did so it is more clear to yourself and the rest of us. There are many ways to do things, some are pretty safe and some are not so safe.

Sport top belays:

I sometimes do the same as shockabuku. It's a good method.

I have also pretied a cordelette and add my lockers ahead of time for each bolt and an additional one through the shelf to tie into with a clove hitch. Basically, you use it as a draw temporarily while you set up the rest of the belay system. I find this to be fairly quick.

If you have room in the bolt hangers I might also just put a draw in one and clove hitch it to start. Then set up your belay station whether direct or indirect. Whichever way I do it I make sure I am at least supported by both bolts eventually.

With just two bolts make sure they are both bomber! If needed you can possibly supplement the anchors with the placement of trad.


jt512


Oct 30, 2007, 7:20 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.

it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.

The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?

well, i wouldnt. not on a sport climb.

So what method would you recommend for someone who chose to?

The answer is that you don't choose to. Single pitch sport routes are not intended for the belayer to belay from the anchors, and to do so is silly.

Jay


shockabuku


Oct 30, 2007, 8:25 PM
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Re: [jt512] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.

it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.

The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?

well, i wouldnt. not on a sport climb.

So what method would you recommend for someone who chose to?

The answer is that you don't choose to. Single pitch sport routes are not intended for the belayer to belay from the anchors, and to do so is silly.

Jay

Yes, well, sometimes people are like that (silly). It may not be clearly enunciated in the Bill of Rights, but I think it is implied.


flint


Oct 30, 2007, 10:05 PM
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Re: [jt512] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.

it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.

The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?

well, i wouldnt. not on a sport climb.

So what method would you recommend for someone who chose to?

The answer is that you don't choose to. Single pitch sport routes are not intended for the belayer to belay from the anchors, and to do so is silly.

Jay

But how will you pass the pipe if one person is at the top and one at the bottom?

j-


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