Oct 27, 2007, 2:27 AM
Post #3 of 24
(2558 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 7, 2002
Posts: 342
Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
I know this is probably a troll, but I have run into some similarly noob-tastic climbers at the crag.
I'm not sure exactly what you were told about anchor building, but clipping two draws is pretty much THE way to set up an anchor if there are two bolts...
I routinely clean and/or lower off of one draw/bolt. So having two seems damn safe...
Oct 27, 2007, 3:05 AM
Post #5 of 24
(2518 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 1473
Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
If the bolts are close together and roughly the same height, two draws is fine and there's no reason to add the extra complexity of a sling. If they are far apart or at different heights, you'd want to equalize them.
Some people insist on at least 3 biners, or at least one locker and one regular biner, for their toprope anchors. I know John Long suggests something similar in Climbing Anchors. Personally, I keep a pair of draws made up with BD positron locking biners. It's not really necessary, but the difference in weight is negligible. Realize though, that if you go to a sport climbing crag and insist on using locking draws for your toprope anchors, you're likely to get laughed at ;)
Of course, that's all assuming this isn't a troll, which it probably is.
Oct 27, 2007, 3:32 AM
Post #7 of 24
(2489 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2007
Posts: 28
Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
Anyone ever stop to think that while you were leading the route you were relying on one non-locking biner? So yea, two(especially opposite and opposed) seems pretty safe to me.
The sling(with a half twist) would come into play if you wanted the anchor to self equalize.
Oct 27, 2007, 3:32 PM
Post #10 of 24
(2399 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2006
Posts: 124
Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
For most routes I can see the anchor bolts from the ground so I decide what I want to bring up at that point...
If the bolts are close together and draws will be equalized when placed this is typically what I do. If they are at varying heights or wide apart I will bring up my homemade draws with 2 foot slings or some 4 foot slings and possibly use the sliding X. I am not to concerned about the use of lockers on the rope as long as the biners the rope goes through are opposite and opposed. Lockers are not a bad idea especially if contact with the bolts or rock could cause the gates to open. I also have a policy to not blindly trust bolt placements. I always try to evaluate my top anchors and try to set them up using the acronym SERNE- Solid, Equalized, Redundant and No Extension. This is not always 100% possible in each situation. I have even had a situation where I downclimbed a route because the top anchors bolts were just crap.
Another thing to consider is if the person is going to clean behind you or just wants to toprope. Often I will take the the last draw before the anchors and switch it over to the rope I am being lowered on as a backup.
Anyways, this is generally what I do and is not written in stone. Hopefully, what I wrote is helpful to someone. I have seen people do alot of messed up things, on sport routes or in setting up top rope anchors that I would not be comfortable with personally.
So, Evanwish what exactly bothers you about how your friend does it and what would you do different?
Oct 28, 2007, 8:32 PM
Post #11 of 24
(2293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
evanwish wrote:
My friend just called me telling me he's been climbing this sport route and his anchor consists of clipping the anchor bolts with quickdraws and simply clipping the rope into each one...
his argument is "well if you add a sling that's just one more thing to break isn't it?"
Does this sound TOTALLY INSANE and STUPID to anyone else?!?!?!
This is an excellent (quick, easy to do, secure) way to build a TEMPORARY anchor if your belayer wants to climb the route as well (lead or TR). But one day, you will have to retrieve your draws...
Oct 28, 2007, 8:46 PM
Post #12 of 24
(2282 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 10
Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
I agree it is an acceptable way if there are only a couple of people that are going to climb it after. If you are setting up to TR for a bigger group then locking biners and a sliding X is the best way to go. I've seen many situations where the anchor end of the draw has rubbed on the rock opening the gate, so just be aware of all possible dangers.
Oct 28, 2007, 10:09 PM
Post #13 of 24
(2222 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 312
Re: [ilovecrimpers] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
ilovecrimpers wrote:
I agree it is an acceptable way if there are only a couple of people that are going to climb it after...I've seen many situations where the anchor end of the draw has rubbed on the rock opening the gate,
last part first. Really, you've seen the rock open a gate many times? How many, and where? Did you see this from 75 feet below at the bottom of the route? If you really have seen this so many times then why do you consider it appropriate to set up an anchor in this way?
Oct 28, 2007, 10:26 PM
Post #14 of 24
(2206 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 473
Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
I voted for "it depends", although I do use this set up quite often so I could have also voted for "I do it alot of the time". If the anchor is going to see repeated laps on it while people top rope then I add a couple lockers. If the anchors are off set then I use slings or cord or whatever I have....If they (anchor bolts) are close together and your buddy is going to either lead up or just go and clean then a couple draws are totally fine. Blah blah blah.............on and on.
Oct 30, 2007, 6:05 AM
Post #16 of 24
(2032 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
evanwish wrote:
if he just does the anchor with his two draws, and he belay's from the top where's he anchor himself in?
You probably need to be more specific about the situation. I think most people infer that sport anchor = TR anchor on single pitch climb with subsequent belays given from the ground.
If you're belaying from the top either because you feel like it, it's multi-pitch bolted, or whatever, using two draws for the anchor is probably not the most efficient method available considering that most people also want to anchor themselves at the top. In that case, assuming bomber anchors, my personal preference is clove a biner on one of the bolts, clove another biner on the other bolt leaving a significant loop of slack between the bolts, and then figure eight back onto my belay loop with a locker. This forms a triangle that has tight lines from me to each bolt and a slack line between the bolts. Then I tie an eight or an overhand in the slack section and redirect from it; you can also belay direct off of this point with the proper type of belay device (i.e. BD ATC Gudie, Gri-Gri, etc) which someone will undoubtedly flame me for not recommending first. There are good reasons for belaying direct but, like I said, personal preference.
Oct 30, 2007, 6:36 AM
Post #17 of 24
(2017 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
Re: [shockabuku] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.
it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.
Oct 30, 2007, 7:06 AM
Post #18 of 24
(2007 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
Re: [vegastradguy] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.
it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.
The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Oct 30, 2007, 1:50 PM)
Oct 30, 2007, 4:53 PM
Post #19 of 24
(1955 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
Re: [shockabuku] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.
it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.
The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?
Oct 30, 2007, 4:57 PM
Post #20 of 24
(1946 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
Re: [vegastradguy] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
vegastradguy wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.
it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.
The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?
well, i wouldnt. not on a sport climb.
So what method would you recommend for someone who chose to?
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Oct 30, 2007, 9:16 PM)
Oct 31, 2007, 1:59 AM
Post #21 of 24
(1828 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2006
Posts: 124
Re: [evanwish] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
I think you need to have him explain again what he did so it is more clear to yourself and the rest of us. There are many ways to do things, some are pretty safe and some are not so safe.
Sport top belays:
I sometimes do the same as shockabuku. It's a good method.
I have also pretied a cordelette and add my lockers ahead of time for each bolt and an additional one through the shelf to tie into with a clove hitch. Basically, you use it as a draw temporarily while you set up the rest of the belay system. I find this to be fairly quick.
If you have room in the bolt hangers I might also just put a draw in one and clove hitch it to start. Then set up your belay station whether direct or indirect. Whichever way I do it I make sure I am at least supported by both bolts eventually.
With just two bolts make sure they are both bomber! If needed you can possibly supplement the anchors with the placement of trad.
Oct 31, 2007, 2:20 AM
Post #22 of 24
(1812 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
Re: [shockabuku] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.
it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.
The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?
well, i wouldnt. not on a sport climb.
So what method would you recommend for someone who chose to?
The answer is that you don't choose to. Single pitch sport routes are not intended for the belayer to belay from the anchors, and to do so is silly.
Oct 31, 2007, 3:25 AM
Post #23 of 24
(1772 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
Re: [jt512] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
jt512 wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.
it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.
The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?
well, i wouldnt. not on a sport climb.
So what method would you recommend for someone who chose to?
The answer is that you don't choose to. Single pitch sport routes are not intended for the belayer to belay from the anchors, and to do so is silly.
Jay
Yes, well, sometimes people are like that (silly). It may not be clearly enunciated in the Bill of Rights, but I think it is implied.
Oct 31, 2007, 5:05 AM
Post #24 of 24
(1719 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 543
Re: [jt512] Setting up a sport anchor with just quick draws
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
jt512 wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
for any bolted anchor consisting of two bolts at a reasonable distance from each other, two draws is absolutely the way to go for an anchor. quick, easy, and totally in-line with the rules of a solid anchor.
it is a good idea to carry a couple of longer draws and a medium length draw or two in case the bolts are at a slightly different level.
The OP also asked the question about how the climber then anchors himself to belay from the top in this situation. It seems to take more effort to set up another personal attachment in addition to the quickdraws. How would you do it?
well, i wouldnt. not on a sport climb.
So what method would you recommend for someone who chose to?
The answer is that you don't choose to. Single pitch sport routes are not intended for the belayer to belay from the anchors, and to do so is silly.
Jay
But how will you pass the pipe if one person is at the top and one at the bottom?
4 /
6%
