|
genlock
Oct 13, 2002, 6:14 PM
Post #1 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 91
|
I'm asking because I had a little adventure with them.... let me explain..
The other day, I wanted to see and try heads... so I got 2, a copper and an alluminium.
I went to a scrap piece of rock near my place with a regular hammer and flat screwdriver..
The first placement I made wasn't good, popped right out as I stepped on my "ahem".. aiders ( a nice shoulder lenght sling.. ) anywayz.. 2nd placement, that was it! it stayed on and felt secure.. so I stepped on it again.. everything was fine.. it held my weight,, now.. bounce test.. Boummm.. the head stayed in the rock, but the loop came undone..
that event had me thinking.. With only my body weight, it came undone.. I can't immagine with a FALLEN body. Are Wired pro crimped differently than Heads? or is it just that my head wasn't good?
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Oct 13, 2002, 6:28 PM
Post #2 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
Well,
That's a little disturbing. Can you explain a little more about the failure mechanism? Did the cable merely break, did it pull out of where it was soldered into the nut, or did a "swage" connection of the cable fail? Also, was this a really tiny nut--what was the cable diameter?
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
genlock
Oct 13, 2002, 6:59 PM
Post #3 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 91
|
it was the "swage connection" at the loop. I'm at work right now.. when I'll get home, I'll scan it and send the picture and the dimentions..
|
|
|
|
|
krustyklimber
Oct 13, 2002, 7:08 PM
Post #4 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 25, 2002
Posts: 1650
|
It sounds to me like you bought a bad copperhead, who made it?
The swages on copperheads are not the same as the ones on wired pro, and I have never seen either fail.
I can see where this has caused you some concern, but again I think you got a bad copperhead, did the loops swage look ok (well crimped)? How big are you?
Jeffr
|
|
|
|
|
genlock
Oct 13, 2002, 8:06 PM
Post #5 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 91
|
It was bought at Mountain Coop Equipment. I don't remember seeing any manufacturer tag or nothing.. ( besides price tag.. ).. but on their website, they say it's Pika
Click here to see Pika heads.
For my weight, I'm 190 pound
Since it's the first time I use them, and never saw the heads before, I can't tell if crimped ok... BUT definitaly not crimped like those that you buy and crimp yourself ( and either those on Pass The Pitons Pete's picture.
[ This Message was edited by: genlock on 2002-10-13 19:10 ]
|
|
|
|
|
krustyklimber
Oct 13, 2002, 8:25 PM
Post #6 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 25, 2002
Posts: 1650
|
Dang dude, not a good thing?!?
I hope this doesn't freak you out permanately...
Jeff
|
|
|
|
|
drunkenmonkey
Oct 13, 2002, 8:46 PM
Post #7 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2002
Posts: 93
|
i understood that regular stoppers were all tested after being swaged by a machine and that the rating should be available in the information when you buy the thing. Copperheads were more likely to be swaged by hand and don't come with a rating of any kind which leaves those of on the heavy end of the scale including myself occasionallyworrying how strong that little bit of wire really is...
|
|
|
|
|
bigwalling
Oct 13, 2002, 8:46 PM
Post #8 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2001
Posts: 728
|
Those are expensive heads. How much do you weigh? When the loop pulls that is not a good thing.
|
|
|
|
|
passthepitonspete
Oct 13, 2002, 10:06 PM
Post #9 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 2183
|
Arg. Genlock, check your PM for the HTML to fix this post! Sheesh. This is frickin' impossible to read.
OK, first of all, heads and wired stoppers are as different as night and day. They are manufactured differently for different purposes.
Wired nuts are designed to hold free climbing falls which generate huge forces! A big wired stopper will hold a frickin' truck, mate. Their swages are designed to hold 10 kN or more. Hell, yeah, wired stoppers are safe. Safe as 'ouses, mate.
Heads, on the other hand, belong in the realm of sick aid. Heads are wicked sick! When nothing else [like a wired stopper, cam or hook]will fit, you can paste one of those little bastards into the most miniscule of divots in the rock. They are really only designed to hold a bit more than body weight! So when you get on an A4 pitch and place ten of these things in a row, you can start to feel a little worried.
I would guess that a #3 head might hold six or eight hundred pounds, maybe more. One of those little #1 buggers will hold you, your rack, and as many prayers as you can say.
And not much more.
When it comes to small heads, you do not bounce test them aggressively! They won't hold! You paste 'em in, then you gently bounce them. If you bounce too hard, you'll rip them. Just a gentle little "boing" is the most you should do.
Aggressive bounce testing will rip heads or bust the swage for sure! They're not designed to withstand such forces.
Now, let's talk about Pika heads.
They're shit, in my opinion.
When I was on Reticent Wall, I took a thirty-foot upside-down fall when the swage on one of those pieces of crap failed! If that had happened in a different place, I could well have ended up dead! [I was stopped by a #3 head I had placed, and had clipped with a screamer which fully deployed]
Summary:
Pika heads are emphatically NOT recommended by Dr. Piton! Their swages are known to fail. Use Bryan Law's heads instead.
Heads are the one piece of equipment you should never buy from a climbing shop. Chances are the guy in the parking lot with the swage in the back of his VW van makes them better and cheaper. [Note: you are hanging your life off of those things, so be sure of your manufacturer]
Don't bounce test small heads too hard.
When you place a head, make sure you paste the livin' bejeepers out of it!
Oh, don't know how to paste heads? Then you had best ask Dr. Piton. [HINT]
I am Dr. Piton,
and when I paste a head, it's " 'welder', dude! "
P.S. You really should click on the link above - have you ever seen a legit passport photo of a big wall crab?
|
|
|
|
|
bigwalling
Oct 13, 2002, 10:27 PM
Post #10 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2001
Posts: 728
|
I weigh the same as you and I can get on number 1's without anything breaking.
I haven't ever used these but I think they would be well made Fly'n Brian. He has climbed some hard routes so I don't think he would sell a crappy product.
|
|
|
|
|
grippedclimber
Oct 14, 2002, 2:19 AM
Post #11 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 65
|
I like to give up my testimony to not bouncing too hard on heads, especially not the little guys. I recently did so on a wall in NM and broke the cable on a #0 with just a little bouncey bouncey. The friggin cable just snapped . My last placements were more heads and a beak, I almost shat me pants. Luckily I was able to transfer wieght back to the other head I was on, being that they were close together cause I was turning the lip of an awkward roof.
|
|
|
|
|
genlock
Oct 14, 2002, 6:57 AM
Post #12 of 12
(2931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 91
|
here's the picture of the heads.. one is fine, (never used) the other one, well.. you guessed it..
take a close look at the "swag"..
My faulty head.. gotta wait for the picture to be approved.. sorry..
EDIT : I just found out that the picture didn't work... oh well..
[ This Message was edited by: genlock on 2002-10-18 17:30 ]
|
|
|
|
|
|
