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unbreakablesoul


Nov 15, 2007, 10:51 AM
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What to cut, what to place?
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Just wondering for all the vets out there if you went through a stage when you were still learning to lead that you carried WAY TOO MUCH GEAR.

I have about 40 leads under my belt and now I am at this point where I keep thinking, jees I have all this gear and I don't ever place it.

So I am carrying:
1 set nuts
1 set hexes
2 sets cams
4 smallest tri-cams

So obviously I am carrying a ton of weight and it makes 5.9 a struggle.

My questions are mainly around what to cut out and how to become more proficient with passive pro. I would love to drop the hexes, and a set of cams but I do sew it up a lot and struggle placing passive pro.

Also, I prefer to climb on granite but as the weather changes I am forced onto a lot of the desert sandstone, which messes with my head. Whats the best gear to be placing at locations like red rocks, St. George, and Moab?


(This post was edited by unbreakablesoul on Nov 15, 2007, 12:15 PM)


climbingaggie03


Nov 15, 2007, 11:07 AM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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I'd ditch the hexes, the tri-cams, and at least some of the cams. I climb with basically a single set with doubles in the hands sizes, and maybe doubles of big stuff if it looks like there's going to be alot of big stuff on the route.

Also look at how many draws and slings you are carrying, when I started I would put a draw on every cam, now if it goes straight up, I just clip the cams direct.

That should shed some weight and still leave you with enough pro. IMO if I pull up to the belay with more than enough gear for the anchor, then I'm carrying too much gear (or the pitch was short/easy)


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Nov 15, 2007, 11:16 AM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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unbreakablesoul wrote:
Just wondering for all the vets out there if you went through a stage when you were still learning to lead that you carried WAY TOO MUCH GEAR.

I have about 40 leads under my belt and now I am at this point where I keep thinking, jees I have all this gear and I don't ever place it.

So I am carrying:
1 set nuts
1 set hexes
2 sets cams
4 smallest tri-cams

So obviously I am carrying a ton of weight and it makes 5.9 a struggle.

My questions are mainly around what to cut out and how to become more proficient with passive pro. I would love to drop the hexes, and a set of cams but I do sew it up a lot and struggle placing passive pro.

Also, I prefer to climb on granite but as the weather changes I am forced onto a lot of the desert sandstone, which messes with my head. Whats the best gear to be placing at locations like red rocks, St. George, and Moab?

The ultimate answer to this question is it depends. I'd say that what you carry with you ultimately depends on your level of experience, your comfort above gear, what route you are on, etc... it will boil down to your experience. When I first started I was known to place the kitchen sink. I've carried as little as 5 nuts and 4 cams on a 8 pitch route, as well as double cams, double nuts, and tricams/hexes on 3 pitch routes. It depends on what the climb is, what your expectations are, and what your comfort is above said gear.


xjlx


Nov 15, 2007, 11:21 AM
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Re: [climbingaggie03] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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What gear is the shiniest? Cool


granite_grrl


Nov 15, 2007, 11:56 AM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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You have too much gear. Look at what you're carrying and decide what you're placing the most. I'll bet you'll find that you don't place the hexes very much. Unless you are trying to become a hex placing master ditch them.

Tri-cams...I love these buggers, but on a lot of rocks they aren't that useful. Ditch 'em if you're not using them (keep them if you do seeing as the 2 smallest tri-cams don't acutally weight that much).

Unless you're doing fairly parallel cracks ditch one of your sets of cams. For most climbs 5.9 and under you do not need a double set.

I actually climb with the same rack I started with. Additions to this rack are things like some bigger cams, some smaller cams (still just a single set, mind) and a double set of medium nuts.

Start leaving stuff at home, you'll figure out what you actually need or not in a hurry.


jestering


Nov 15, 2007, 12:10 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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Don't listen to these nay-sayers. Keep the hexes! I end up placing them all the time, especially in larger constrictions (since that's largely what they're made for).
Become a registered hex offender.
Get you some hexual healing.
You'll probably still want to shy away from oral hex...


granite_grrl


Nov 15, 2007, 12:18 PM
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Re: [jestering] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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Whoa dude, I'm well versed in the way of hexes. I carry my set with pride, but only in certain areas on certain types of rock.

Far too often they're like carrying up a #4 Camalot up a finger crack...there might be a place for it that you can't see from the ground, but most of the time its just extra weight you didn't need to carry.


charley


Nov 15, 2007, 12:20 PM
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Re: [jestering] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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You can also double or stack hexes for wide stuff.


shimanilami


Nov 15, 2007, 12:28 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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You are asking the right questions, but noone but you can provide the right answers. What Epoch said is basically correct.

You can start by paying close attention to what gear you're still carrying when you reach each belay. If more than half of the rack is still on your sling, then you've got some serious paring down to do. If you've got nothing left, on the other hand, then you've basically achieved perfection (with no room to spare). You'll probably end up somewhere in-between on most climbs; where will depend on how proficient and confident you are.


mcfoley


Nov 15, 2007, 12:57 PM
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Re: [shimanilami] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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I pretty much agree with what was said above.
I have a few hexes, but I usually only carry them on long multipitch climbs (bail gear). I climb with a single set of stoppers/cams 2Xing up on hand sizes, or if the route requires addl gear.


markc


Nov 15, 2007, 1:05 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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unbreakablesoul wrote:
1 set hexes
2 sets cams...

You have mid to large pro X3. For your standard rack I'd start by dropping either the hexes or one set of cams. You may find you're comfortable with less than that, but that would be my starting point. From there, make note of the gear you always have left over.


livinonasandbar


Nov 15, 2007, 1:07 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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On multipitch climbs, you're looking at building two anchors, plus protecting the pitch in between. So, as others have already said, it depends...

I tend to carry too much gear, too, but I just replaced my entire rack with brand-new ultralight stuff: cams, nuts, biners, 12mm slings... I'm much happier packing all that shit now!


sspssp


Nov 15, 2007, 1:08 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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Sure it depends, but here are some comments.

If you are doing a route close to your lead limit, I don't think what you are carrying is that unreasonable. For hard, single pitch, red points, you can usually taylor the gear to the route.

For multi-pitch (where most pitches are presumambly further below your lead limit), I tend to carry a lot of cams in the finger to off-finger size just because they are lighter weight. For my default mulit-pitch Yosemite rack, two-thirds of the rack is a .75 camalot or smaller.

Switch to light weight biners. Try to use the cam sling without an extra sling (you can have longer, double gear slings sewn by Yates or someone else). Carry extra slings around your kneck that don't have biners. Slings are really light, its the biners that add up. If you need to extend something, you can use a sling from your neck and "steal" a biner from somewhere else if you get desperate.

Switch to Wild Country Friends (or some other lighter wieght piece) for anything that is hand sized or bigger.


(This post was edited by sspssp on Nov 15, 2007, 1:09 PM)


Tree_wrangler


Nov 15, 2007, 1:25 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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I find that I can get through most routes with 1 set of cams and 1.5 sets of Wild Country nuts (with the duplicates being the small sizes).

I'm using a set of forged friends with an addition of a #4 camalot and 2 #5 camalots. They're huge and people laugh, but they get used all the time. I would buy flexible stem cams next time, but I was on a budget and the forged friends are otherwise awesome.

I'd skip small hexes, but I have the cowbells. I just can't figure out why they get so much flack when they're both cheap and bombproof. But, I only bring them out when I'm pretty sure that I don't have enough cams to cover the range. Still....boy....I really like hexes. I even like Oral Hex.


stymingersfink


Nov 15, 2007, 2:08 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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unbreakablesoul wrote:
Just wondering for all the vets out there if you went through a stage when you were still learning to lead that you carried WAY TOO MUCH GEAR.

I have about 40 leads under my belt and now I am at this point where I keep thinking, jees I have all this gear and I don't ever place it.
40 leads?

Here's a new twist on the game... how many of those climbs you've already lead can you go back and lead clean with only passive gear?

It's a fun game, and will have you carrying fewer cams sooner rather than later. Carry all your passive gear and at least a dozen slings (mostly standard and a few double length). I like to double or triple up on stoppers sizes 4-8 when I'm playing that game, 'cause I have a tendency to place more in that size, but you'll find what you need as you play it more often.

When you run out of routes you've already climbed, take your newly reinforced skill-set to a 5.6 you've never been on. Now see how you do on-sighting progressively more difficult grades with only passive gear.


jemco


Nov 15, 2007, 2:42 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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I would also suggest lightening up your rack in the sizes you feel most comfortable climbing. For example, I HATE finger-locks and they make me want to cry, so I bring lots of 1" gear (I get more a-skeered in that size!). I am very comfortable in the hands, and rattly-hands to fists. So...I tend to climb more comfortably and place less gear in that size--I bring less of it. Obviously looking up at the climb and reading about the suggested gear list can help, but overall, carrying a bit extra will feel much better than running out with an undie-stainer section still to come.
jemco


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Nov 15, 2007, 2:52 PM
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Re: [jestering] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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jestering wrote:
Don't listen to these nay-sayers. Keep the hexes! I end up placing them all the time, especially in larger constrictions (since that's largely what they're made for).
Become a registered hex offender.
Get you some hexual healing.
You'll probably still want to shy away from oral hex...

I think you have a hexually transmitted disease, which may have led to some sort of hexual dysfunction. Smile


glytch


Nov 15, 2007, 3:00 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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unbreakablesoul wrote:
So obviously I am carrying a ton of weight and it makes 5.9 a struggle.

My questions are mainly around what to cut out and how to become more proficient with passive pro. I would love to drop the hexes, and a set of cams but I do sew it up a lot and struggle placing passive pro.

I know this isn't exactly what you asked, and I'm by no means an extremely experienced leader, but my unsolicited advice is this (bearing in mind I'm used to gunks grading): if you're having trouble proficiently placing passive pro, spend some time at easier grades before climbing into harder 8's and 9's... those are the grades that can actually begin to pump you out if you hang around and climb too slowly, making slow gear placement problematic. While there are exceptions, at 5.7 and below you can spend as much time as you want fiddling with passive gear(depending on the propensity of your belayer to doze off) and dial your placement skills.

Also, take note of the type of gear you use in different kinds of rock - in my experience, hexes and tricams have been only marginally useful for sandstone climbing and I will leave the ground without them frequently, while at the gunks I place some of each just about every pitch.

good luck! Consider yourself lucky that you still have prime climbing season - it's cold and rainy here....


ja1484


Nov 15, 2007, 3:10 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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Varies per climb.

But, seriously...a whole set of hexes? I love hexes, but generally speaking the large sizes are the more useful.

Also, small tricams generally equate to medium nuts, so you can drop a few of those.

As for cams, I usually carry a full set of Metolius and BD C4s .75 to 3

If there's other stuff I need for the route, I'll know about it ahead of time.


caughtinside


Nov 15, 2007, 4:25 PM
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Re: [ja1484] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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Here is an idea:

Count the total number of pieces on your rack. I'm just guessing, but it sounds like it is around 40.

The rack I use most of the time is 26, 14 cams, 12 nuts.

I'll add a big piece or two, or maybe an extra finger sized cam, or leave half of my rack on the ground if the route dictates.

Even 26 pieces is big by a lot of peoples standards.

Have fun with it, and think about what gear you always use and what you never use. I'm still always changing things up, to see how different setups work.

Oh, and if you have a bunch of extra lockers, rethink that as well. personally, I take two light ones, in addition to my belay biner. I know folks who take 4 or 6, which I personally feel is unnecessary.


Partner angry


Nov 15, 2007, 4:34 PM
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Re: [caughtinside] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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caughtinside wrote:
Oh, and if you have a bunch of extra lockers, rethink that as well. personally, I take two light ones, in addition to my belay biner. I know folks who take 4 or 6, which I personally feel is unnecessary.

All the time? What for?

I bring what I need, often less. It works for me but freaks out partners on multi-pitch when we have to share the rack.


ja1484


Nov 15, 2007, 5:54 PM
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Re: [caughtinside] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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caughtinside wrote:
Oh, and if you have a bunch of extra lockers, rethink that as well. personally, I take two light ones, in addition to my belay biner. I know folks who take 4 or 6, which I personally feel is unnecessary.

I usually carry my belay locker, a large HMS locker to rack/use with my equallette, and two smaller screwgates for areas where I might need the security (first piece after a runout if I can't double up, anchors, etc.)

I have a hard time thinking of a situation where I would need more than that.


(This post was edited by ja1484 on Nov 15, 2007, 5:55 PM)


studclimber


Nov 15, 2007, 6:25 PM
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Re: [unbreakablesoul] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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Depends on a lot. How long is the route/pitch, what kind of crack systems there are, how big the systems are, how comfortable you are runout stuff, how difficult the climb is compared to what you typically climb, etc etc. just depends on a lot. not a whole lot of help, srry, but it really does depend on a lot of factors.


waltereo


Nov 15, 2007, 8:55 PM
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Re: [ja1484] What to cut, what to place? [In reply to]
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ja1484 wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
Oh, and if you have a bunch of extra lockers, rethink that as well. personally, I take two light ones, in addition to my belay biner. I know folks who take 4 or 6, which I personally feel is unnecessary.

I usually carry my belay locker, a large HMS locker to rack/use with my equallette, and two smaller screwgates for areas where I might need the security (first piece after a runout if I can't double up, anchors, etc.)

I have a hard time thinking of a situation where I would need more than that.

If your are building an anchor, you need at least 3 locking biners (one for each protection) + belay locker = 4 , at least


Partner angry


Nov 15, 2007, 9:11 PM
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waltereo wrote:
ja1484 wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
Oh, and if you have a bunch of extra lockers, rethink that as well. personally, I take two light ones, in addition to my belay biner. I know folks who take 4 or 6, which I personally feel is unnecessary.

I usually carry my belay locker, a large HMS locker to rack/use with my equallette, and two smaller screwgates for areas where I might need the security (first piece after a runout if I can't double up, anchors, etc.)

I have a hard time thinking of a situation where I would need more than that.

If your are building an anchor, you need at least 3 locking biners (one for each protection) + belay locker = 4 , at least

Dude, are you serious!!!??!

You need a belay locker on each piece = 3. Then you need 2 lockers for the power point. Then you need one for your belay device + one more for your reverso. We haven't even got to each of your sling/daisy chains for you. That's 2 more. If you go over a roof while climbing it's best to have a locker to avoid the worries of backclipping, that's at least one more, should be two.

The way I see it, you need a minimum of 11 lockers for every pitch you climb. Anything less is just asking for trouble.

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