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Bolting in cinder block
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shoo


Nov 20, 2007, 8:34 AM
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Bolting in cinder block
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These would be used mostly for practice and demonstration purposes. They probably wouldn't be used for anything that would put more than 3x body weight on the anchors and unlikely be used for applications where a fall is a real danger.

I found the link below for attaching climbing holds to cinder block.
http://www.cheapholds.com/...mp;Category_Code=HCA

There was also a thread a while back about using a bolt with steel threads rather than an expansion bolt, but there was nothing conclusive there.

Does anyone have experience setting anchor bolts in cinder block? Tests would be awesome if anyone knows of any.


obie2002


Nov 20, 2007, 8:51 AM
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Re: [shoo] Bolting in cinder block [In reply to]
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i work as a structural engineer and its general practice in our office to fully grout the cores of a block if a bolt being used in tension is going to penetrate that block. Block isn't designed to take tension. If its truely "cinder" block which they stopped making years ago it will have even less strength then new concrete block. i wouldn't personally recommend putting any more then body weight on a bolt in that situation if that.


shoo


Nov 20, 2007, 8:57 AM
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Some more background. The building in question was built somewhere around 1970. It may truly be cinder block. Not really sure.


sgauss


Nov 20, 2007, 9:33 AM
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Re: [shoo] Bolting in cinder block [In reply to]
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A gym I used to climb in had one section on a "cinder block" wall which they had bolts for holds. For the most part it worked okay, but over time a few of the blocks failed, leaving behind tight monopockets.


doktor_g


Nov 20, 2007, 10:05 AM
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Re: [sgauss] Bolting in cinder block [In reply to]
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I built a large commercial gym in Oregon that is lumber and cinderblock. 20' tall and a double arch.

Depending on your application, I agree with the structural engineer above.

We used a Hilti HIT system. This is a combination epoxy/grout and a 4 part bolt. It's really ingenious. The lumber frame is anchored to the wall by three rows of bolts that are 16" on center. The bolts were arranged at 8', 12' and 18'. Therefore we needed about 300 holes in the two opposing walls. The HIT system consists of the hole that you drilled that may or may not be in a fully grouted/filled block. You then insert a cylindrical screen into the hole. Fill it about half way with epoxy and then slowly TURN the threaded dowel into the hole sharp end first. It's workable in 24hrs. We then attached 2 layers of horizontally oriented and overlapped 2x8s. Then we put on a nut and washer. Viola! It even improves the earthquake rating I bet (but I'm not sure about that).I would use this system if you are building a gym on cinder block walls.

I would not use a single dowel/bolt for a single hold. I would definately not use a single (or even two) dowel/bolt(s) for an anchor in a cinder wall. You'll need an array.

There are two reasons. One the anchor may fail and you hit the deck unexpectedly. The second is you'll ruin a cinderblock wall... $$$$$$$$ mucho fixo bado.

Best of luck.

Grover Shipman (Engineeer and Physician)


obie2002


Nov 20, 2007, 10:11 AM
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Re: [doktor_g] Bolting in cinder block [In reply to]
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If you were placing just holds on a cinder block wall i wouldn't worry to much seeing as for the most part, holds are loaded in shear which is a blocks strong suit and they tend to be loaded statically causing no shock loading. A bolt could be loaded in any number of directions potentially putting the block in tension in which case under even a small load your just likely to end up with a new pocket instead of a place to anchor like was mentioned above.


billcoe_


Nov 20, 2007, 10:25 AM
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Re: [obie2002] Bolting in cinder block [In reply to]
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Why not just build a sub wall with 3/4" plywood to bolt the holds into?

You can use the Epoxy/screen - Adhesive that Hilti, Powers, US Anchors, or Simpson all make, but why go right into the wall?

You may want to change it or move it later, plywood will get you that mobility and flexability.

Just wondrin'

Bill


Valarc


Nov 20, 2007, 10:50 AM
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Re: [billcoe_] Bolting in cinder block [In reply to]
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if I'm reading the OP correctly, he's talking about putting bolt hangers into the block, not places to attach climbing holds. In which case I would say HELL NO. If you dont think it will hold a fall, don't pit a hanger on it. To do otherwise is begging for someone to do something stupid.


shoo


Nov 20, 2007, 12:29 PM
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Sounds like the general consensus is don't bolt in cinder block. Oh well. Back to the drawing board.


zeth01


Nov 27, 2007, 7:17 AM
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Re: [shoo] Bolting in cinder block [In reply to]
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CMU = Concrete Masonry Unit
theres no such thing as a cinder block or maybe there is but it's not what your talking about.
Sorry had to say something. Used to be a mason.


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