Disclaimer: When I choose to start trad climbing, I will go with an experienced trad climber that is able to give proper instruction. For now I am trying to learn as much as I can to make that go smoothly.

Question:
I've been reading Long's Climbing Anchors and I have a question. I don't have easy access to any trad climbers right now, so I figure here will be a good place to askkkk. The following is mostly written as statements, but that's only to simplify the reading. I am wondering if 1) "It works, but there's better" 2) "Good way to die" 3) "Good to go" (This is about the whole system, not just the clove hitch part.

The following system has 3 placements, all bomber, which form an equilateral triangle (pointing down). To use the equalette, one would

1) Clove hitch two of the placements with one end of the equalette (right?). This would create a dip of slack (which is outside of the system, so it's no problem).

2) Then, use the other side of the equalette for the remaining placement.

Since the purpose of the equalette is to help in equalizing, the two limiter knots must be in line with one another. So:

3) The remaining end of the equalette must be pulled up (to raise the limiter knots to be in-line with one another). To do so, can one tie a clove hitch with this end of the equalette and then adjust the height so the limiter knots are in line? Following the clove, there will be a bight remaining on the rope. Since it should be long enough, now could one tie a fisherman's knot back lower on the same end of the equalette?

Hopefully this image helps:
[image]http://www.frontiernet.net/~andersen/equa.jpg[/image]

Note: Arrows are merely for decoration.

Edit: This would require making a clove hitch with two strands of rope . . . is that safe for a clove hitch? Also, when I say the limiter knots should be in line, I really mean not grossly out out whack -- I don't mean they should be perfectly match.

Two clove hitches are fairly bulky, and technically result in two different directions of stress on the carabiner, possibly putting you in a funky tri-axial loading type situation. While it's possible this might not be a *huge* deal, one of the clove hitches still has to be fairly far out in the basket of the carabiner, and away from the spine. Not preferred.

Also, this is pretty inefficient. Tying three knots where one will do just goes against the grain of all the little things that are good to develop in gear rigging - efficiency, simplicity, easy inspectability, etc.

I suggest that rather than the above, you simply tie a loose fig8-on-a-bight on the "open" leg of the equallette and adjust its position (aka distance from powerpoint) to taste before cinching it tight. If you're not clear on how to do this, just grab your equallette and hang a carabiner from somewhere and practice. It becomes pretty intuitive which strands to pull to adjust where on the length of cordage the knot is, and which to pull to cinch it without moving it, after a few minutes of fiddling. Practice "sliding" the knot up and down that arm of the equallette by moving slack through the knot...then practice cinching the knot tight without moving it (too much) by moving the slack through the knot so it stays where you want as it gets tighter.

One knot is faster, simpler, easier to inspect, and, in this case, likely stronger due to the preferable way in which a single knot loads the carabiner it's attached to.

So, in conclusion: It's great that you plan to start trad climbing with an experienced mentor/guide keeping an eye on you. That belies uncommonly good judgment that's in short supply these days (especially on these boards) and shows you have a healthy respect for the dangers present in trad climbing that aren't as pertinent in sport climbing. DO NOT LOSE THIS RESPECT. Furthermore, it's good to see you reading up and educating yourself - that's the fastest way to true knowledge, and will set the record straight on some of climbing's more common myths (microfractures, belaying through tie-in points, etc.) and keep you clear of hearsay.

It's good that you're experimenting and asking questions - keep the curiosity, as improvisation is an absolutely necessary survival skill in trad climbing. This post isn't meant to shut down your enthusiasm - just provide hopefully helpful feedback. Hope it was useful.

Check out other posts I have made. I'm not Majid. I just added those arrows because it seems to be the running joke on RC and I just wanted to fit in.

Yeah, I kid about Majid too, he's alright.

I'm not a fan of the rig, but why couldn't you use your clove hitch side to do the "leveling" up of the limiter knots. Turn it around so your hitches are on the left side if it helps with rope length, or move your limiter knots closer to one side and leave them there with adjustment always coming from the clove hitch side.

Oh, I would do that from now on. The problem was before I thought that I had to keep all four strands (well, two very large bights) of the equalette in play. By tying off with a figure 8 on a bight on one end, the "other strand" of that bight is then "useless" (like the dip formed when clove hitching two placements). That's the whole reason I had the clove hitch going with two "strands" (since i was doing a clove hitch on a large bight).

. . . Hope that made sense. Basically, yes, you're right. I was just misusing the equalette.

Edit: Why not just use another clove hitch on the last placement? Just because it doesn't take too much extra work and it adds redundancy?

the cordelette is redundant but not equalized. equalette is both.
Here's a link to a recap thread on the equalette
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...rum.cgi?post=1443495
see also
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...rum.cgi?post=1513674

Eric

Maybe this highly improved diagram will help. Sorry, I omitted the arrows for clarity.