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Cleaning a Traverse Using Hooks
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kindredlion


Oct 15, 2002, 4:47 PM
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Cleaning a Traverse Using Hooks
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Just last weekend I soloed the Leaning Tower via the West Face. (My First Big Wall BTW:D)

I was attempting to do the thing in a push, to avoid hauling. Therefore I had to employ some speedy techniques. In the process of cleaning the A2+ traverse pitch immediately after Guano Ledge (Pitch 5), I realizd that I could clean much faster when I did not have to lower off a tat. In order to accomplish this in a time saving manner, what I did was...

I would place my high ascender above my piece and lower out "plum" with my Gri Gri. (I use a single ascender with a Gri Gri... thanks Doc) Once I am hanging plum below the next piece I would grab the slack leading to the piece I am cleaning, and pull myself in. Once at the piece I would pull out my aider (pre-rigged with a couple cam hooks) and slot the appropriate cam hook next to the placement. Voila! I can stand and clean nice and easy.. As log as I don't mind a little swing, I can just step off of the aider the hook goes "ping" and I am back to jugging, and cleaning...

So.

Any Comments?

Has Anyone ever done this before?
Am I reinventing the wheel here?

Could this be a "better way"?

When you step off of the aider, you can either go for a little controlled swing, or you can pull your Gri Gri in tight, and just tension out to your piece again.

Would love to hear some feedback..

Adam


kindredlion


Oct 16, 2002, 9:17 AM
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{crickets sound}

[ This Message was edited by: kindredlion on 2002-10-16 09:17 ]


spike


Oct 16, 2002, 10:15 AM
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Hi Adam,
Are you using adjustable daisys --- like YATES?
When I solo'd WFLT in August on P5 the pieces were close enough together that I could reach back and clean the piece.
Question:
Did you mantle/do free move at top of P9 to get to the 5.6 section?
What did you think of the 5.7 section at start of P6?
Richard / SPIKE


dsafanda


Oct 16, 2002, 10:37 AM
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Like Spike I would have thought you could just make the reach back but it sounds like your method worked well for you.

Sort of unrelated to the original subject but since there are two of you have recently soloed LT...I can't help but ask...what was your prefered technique for belaying yourself when leading. I have not soloed a wall as of yet. I tried a few moderate pitches on the east side of ElCap base this summer with a Gri-Gri. I'm not sure I was completely sold on the idea.

[ This Message was edited by: dsafanda on 2002-10-16 10:39 ]


spike


Oct 16, 2002, 11:57 AM
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David,
I use a DMM Belay Master and Gri Gri when I solo. The plastic gate prevent 'cross loading' and positions the Gri Gri in front of the harness in a consistent manner which allows easy access to feed rope. I tie a backup knot and then attach the backup knot to my harness belay loop with a Wild Country auto-locker, I think it is the Synergy HMS. Every 30' or so "on a bomber piece or BOLT" I will place a long runner, pull up slack from the belay and tie a clove hitch to a carabiner --- kinda like a re-belay --- in the future I am going to start using a prusik instead of a clove hitch attached to a carabiner. I didn't use the continuous-loop method on LTWF. I also didn't use a solo tag rack on LTWF. I want to practice/test the continuous-loop method and solo tag rack MORE before using it. I didn't attach my PIG to my leadline at the belay to help create a dynamic belay. It is on my list of things to practice/test. I do carry a minimum of 3 screamers. Any other questions - just ask.
Richard / SPIKE


[ This Message was edited by: spike on 2002-10-16 13:30 ]


passthepitonspete


Oct 16, 2002, 1:20 PM
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Sorry 'bout the crickets, dude.

I was trying to get my cleaning slave, Tom, to answer.

From the sounds of it, your system should work pretty well for you, at least where you can use cam hooks.

The important thing here is to remain flexible in your cleaning system.

I do not purport to teach the Best Way - for that can be better left up to you. I teach what I - Dr. Piton - consider to be the Better Way, which in this particular instance, you may have bettered.

Generally speaking, when you clean an aid traverse that is dead horizontal, then you will have no other choice but to do so on aiders. Hence the importance of not backcleaning.

When you clean a rising traverse like the one above Guano Ledge [P5 of the Leaning Tower] then you can modify your system, and chances are you can get away with not using aiders at all.

You do this by cleaning it The Better Way. This is explained in great detail, and you can read it by clicking here:

Dr. Piton, cleaning an aid pitch with two jugs is a pain. Is there a BETTER WAY?



I am Dr. Piton,

and there is always a Better Way!

P.S. Uh, like sorry to burst your bubble, dude, but like that fifth pitch of the Tower is like only A1, eh?

Truely. [sic]

I know. I climbed it in May. And bootied two brand new pins and three wired stoppers in the A1 placements.

If you're looking for [new] A2+, check out Reticent Wall.....

[Just trying to bamoozle you with aid climbing ratings, but that pitch is still only A1 - sorry.]


kindredlion


Oct 16, 2002, 2:11 PM
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Spike,

I edned up hooking through anything that resembled free climbing.. Three hooks to get out of pitch five.. (So What If I am a Wuss!!) I was not into the free moves with the boots and gear I was wearing.. Maybe next time, I'll free the whole thing! (snirk)

Adam

Nice Job On The Solo Though!


spike


Oct 16, 2002, 2:26 PM
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Adam,
Someone left a fixed medium Leeper cam hook about 2/3rd the way up the 5.7 section at the start of P5 and I used my cheater stick to clip it. At the top of P9 I use my cheater stick to clip the first fixed angle pin to make the move onto the ledge. With wall boots and all the gear I carry, the only time I make free moves is when NOTHING ELSE will work.
Richard / SPIKE


kindredlion


Oct 16, 2002, 2:27 PM
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Dsafanda,

I was using a Gri Gri, and two 60m climbing lines. I did not use the continuous loop, nor did I use a tag rack.. I would trail my extra 60m (tied at my anchor) and use it to rap back to my anchor. I would then throw whatever I didn't want to jug with onto the trail line and lower it off for later "hauling". While Jugging I would surely tie backup loops.

Hm.. I am at a loss for words..

Is this good enough!??!

If you really want more info just ask and I will post..

Adam


kindredlion


Oct 16, 2002, 2:32 PM
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Spike,

Shweet did you get to clean that hook?

Fixed cam hook eh? never seen one of those..

I was not using adjustable daisies, I was using traditional looped daisies.

I actually only own one adjustable, and thought it might be a little confusinf/irregular to have one adjustable and one not...

Otherwise I almost just brought it as a third daisy, But my first round of gear "cuts" got rid of that quick!!

I am with you on the free climbing, I did not have to pull out the Ol' cheat stick, but I did do some awkward aiding.


**The Reason I had so much disctance between pieces on the P5 traverse, I was leapfroggin and back cleaning a little. I don't have many hybrid aliens, and they were cream there.****

Adam


dsafanda


Oct 16, 2002, 2:36 PM
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I PM'd Spike with my follow up question so as to keep this post on track. Essentially I was wondering about the Gri-Gri and avoiding having the weight of the rope pull it through, creating a large coil of unnecessary slack. This was the problem I was having on the few pitches that I tried. Maybe I was being careless and not tying frequently enough.


kindredlion


Oct 16, 2002, 2:49 PM
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dsafanandaananda,

Is your Gri Gri modified at all?

How often were you tying knots?

How badly was this occuring?

Adam


kindredlion


Oct 16, 2002, 3:08 PM
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Hey Doc,

Thanks for the insight!

You are correct, I agree that Being open minded and able to adapt to any sitation is key to success. One should never fool themselves into thinking a particular techniques will work in all scenarios.

The only Rule I truly impress on climbers as being absolutely constant is that -

Everything is Situational

Now Doc, (sic) I am appalled (sic) to think of you bamboozling my (sic) ego on this one.. You and me both know that I (sic)cleaned that A5 (sic) pitch wit perfect style and (sic) grace. I could really care less about the grade, but well ... I guess you could be right

I am stoked to start upping the grades, though I don't know if I am ready to take on the Reticent .. yet. First lets crawl up the A scale to a true A2+... My knees are knocking right now for some A3, I can't wait!!!

So thanks again Doc. Hey I'm sorry I was not around to assist in luggin gear for LE, but by the time I got to the valley, you were already in the 'moon' of the eclipse..
although I did leave you a note.

So thanks and take off EH!
er.. I mean Take Air EH!

Adam - Still truly Canuck - Hubenig


_______________________________________
Post was editted to install the aire of canadadianism.

[ This Message was edited by: kindredlion on 2002-10-16 16:10 ]


dsafanda


Oct 16, 2002, 3:09 PM
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Nope...wasn't using a modified Gri-Gri.
I was tying back-up knots every...I don't remember. That could have been the problem.


kindredlion


Oct 16, 2002, 3:26 PM
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dsafaCanada,

HAHA,

That's funny!

I am like you, I am not too religious with the backup loops, but really should try to be more... fanatic that is...

I don't run into this prob as much to actually be annoyed by it...

You're prob right..Try tying more often..

Take Air,

Adam


We should meet someday.
When we do, let's maybe do some climbing or something..
Have you ever climbed out doors?


dsafanda


Oct 16, 2002, 3:44 PM
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I've climbed outdoors once or twice. Latley though I've been logging way too many hours in front of a computer screen.

I get to go The Valley this weekend though.

Nice job on your first wall! Gives me some needed inspiration.

[ This Message was edited by: dsafanda on 2002-10-16 15:45 ]


kindredlion


Oct 16, 2002, 4:14 PM
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Nice! you gots a plan fer the weekend yet? or just going to troll for a partner to climb free?

Let me know I might be swayed into heading there this weekend as well.


I think there is a new plastic route on El Cap that you can practice "outdoor" climbing on. I think that there may be new AC plugs, and hi-speed internet there too now!!


Take Air,

Adam


dsafanda


Oct 16, 2002, 4:25 PM
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I do have a partner for this jaunt to Yosemite but it's nice to have a name for those times in the future when I don't. What's your next wall?


kindredlion


Oct 16, 2002, 4:42 PM
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I think I might try to Solo the Prow.

Otherwise Zodiac will probably be next.

I gotta get up El Cap!!

So if there are Nose parties out there that need a second or a third to fill out their team... I AM IN


You?

Adam


passthepitonspete


Oct 16, 2002, 6:03 PM
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dsafanda wrote:

Quote:"Essentially I was wondering about the Gri-Gri and avoiding having the weight of the rope pull it through, creating a large coil of unnecessary slack. This was the problem I was having on the few pitches that I tried. Maybe I was being careless and not tying frequently enough."

The problem with using a Grigri as a solo belay device is that the weight of the rope between you and your lower station [where the end of the rope is anchored] will pull extra rope through your Grigri, unbeknownst to you! This means that you will have excess slack in your system, when there should be no slack!

Yikes!

Fortunately there is a Better Way. There is always a Better Way.

What you need to do is make yourself up a half dozen long 5mm prusik loops, and rebelay your lead rope from time to time on the better pieces.

Not only do you prevent the excess slack from occuring, and do not reduce the fall factor due to the length of the prusik sling, but you also eliminate rope wear.

While cleaning, your weight is held by the prusik immediately above, and not by your upper anchor. Put a prusik before every edge or roof, and provided you do it right, your rope will finish the wall without a scratch.

I have discussed this system at length, and you can click here to find out about Grigri soloing.

In the post above, you will see a link near the top. After you have read the post, you can click on the link there, or you can take the shortcut here to learn about how to rebelay your solo lead rope with long prusiks.

I am Dr. Piton,

and when I soloed the Trip, I started with a brand new rope, and I finished with a brand new rope!

P.S. I thought you guys already knew this fundamental[?]


apollodorus


Oct 16, 2002, 6:25 PM
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I totally lucked out while cleaning P4 of Scorched Earth, because I cleaned a duct-taped hook before I got to this nasty, overhanging traverse that was led with about three or four hook moves in a row. After lowering off a piece, I had to swing over to a small flake, pull myself along it with both hands, and then set the hook so I could clean. It was about 5.8 or 5.9 to hang on with both hands. Without the hook, I would've been SOL. From now on, I think I'm going to keep a couple of hooks with me whenever I clean a traverse.


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