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Haul Bag tech tips!? Please?
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penguinator


Nov 27, 2007, 11:32 PM
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Haul Bag tech tips!? Please?
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Whew there is so much about Solo Aid that is very confusing...

Firstly, I have heard whisperings about using your haulbag as a dynamic part of your solo anchor... are there any links to articles explaining how all this works? Or can someone explain it to me?

Ok, secondly.... I have set up my hauler at the top of a pitch, with a prussic taking the load so I am not rapping down on a toothed pulley, I rap down and get to the bottom anchor. How would I free my bag and lower it out? Of course I can just muscle it off to free it if it is light enough, or set up a mini haul to free them.... but what do people use to lower out the bags? I have heard people use daisies (but this seems a little short?). I think the one which makes most sense to me is taking along a dedicated lowering out line. But: would I tie one end to the haulbag, muscle it out by hand, then drop the other end and let it hang off the haulbag once I am done? OR would I take double the length and lower it out so I can pull the rope through and retrieve the line?

Whew..... my head hurts now...


skiclimb


Nov 27, 2007, 11:50 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Haul Bag tech tips!? Please? [In reply to]
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So sounds like you want to solo a wall... good for you i'll watch. Actually ..no i won't.

But here are a few tips

You can make the haulbag a dynaic belayer by simply clipping it into the same point you tie your lead line into. ie u fall and the bag takes up some of the force from the fall by being lifted up.

Problem with that idea is this.. one nice way to set up your haulbags when soloing is to hang them off a fifi hook so you can haul it up while coming down cleaning the pitch.

SO if you hung the haulbads off fifi hooks on the same point as the lead line then you run the risk of pulling the bag off the anchor when you take a fall and having it fall to the end of it's slack. That just sounds like too much excitement for me.

generally it seems to me that soloing a wall is for peopel who want to brag to other people who really could care less anyway. Not technically all that impressive. No one to enjoy the climb with .. tons of extra work.

best way to do an aid wall is three peeps lotsa fun then and can be just as fast as 2 people ..or faster.


(This post was edited by skiclimb on Nov 27, 2007, 11:50 PM)


penguinator


Nov 28, 2007, 12:16 AM
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Re: [skiclimb] Haul Bag tech tips!? Please? [In reply to]
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Oh don't worry... not doing it to brag. Doing it out of pure convenience! There is no one else in my area who wants to aid (or trad climb) as much as I want. Or has the time to.


kristoffer


Nov 28, 2007, 10:46 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Haul Bag tech tips!? Please? [In reply to]
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You can use a munter mule knot to both dock and lower out your pig.. but also back it up with the lead line so if the mule portion of the knot fails it doesn’t rip you off of the wall.
If you rig with a munter mule you wont have to rap off of your haul device nor a prussic but instead off of your top anchor knot.


I have never used a pig as part of my dynamic system.. it just seems like extra trouble that you could eliminate by knowing how to build a solid multi directional anchor. And if you are worried about the dynamics it could add, just keep some extra slack in your system till you feel there is enough rope paid out to provide sufficient dynamics.


Speed hauling via a fifi hook or rigging hook would be a sketchy technique for some one with out much experience to employ.

Keep it basic and keep alive.


guccipiggy


Nov 28, 2007, 11:23 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Haul Bag tech tips!? Please? [In reply to]
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Try looking for Passthepitonspete's old posts. (Sorry don't have the time or willingness right now)
It's cold here now and its hard to find partners to climb with. Might have to do solo til the ice comes(toprope that is). Still debating whether to use a Mini-traxion, ropeman or Gri-Gri for this. Any suggestions would be great.


penguinator


Nov 28, 2007, 6:17 PM
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Re: [guccipiggy] Haul Bag tech tips!? Please? [In reply to]
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Gucci, may I point you in the direction of another thread I started? It got some well thought out discussion (ignore my first insistence to solo without a device)
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...;;page=unread#unread

Thanks for the replies guys, I just need to get some time out on the rock learning the basics in a safe environment. Just a while ago I stumbled across the munter mule method of lowering out bags and it seems the most convenient. As for the dynamic anchor with the haul bag, I think I would prefer to be a separate part of the system. It just seems to complicate things.


moof


Nov 28, 2007, 10:43 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Haul Bag tech tips!? Please? [In reply to]
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Haulbag dynamic anchor:

My setup is as follows:
1. Rope is tied into the power point as you'd expect.
2. Haulbag is hanging from it's docking cord (munter mule) from the power point as well, backed up with the main haul line, also into the power point. I do not use a separate bag coredellette as I would with a partner.
3. Rope goes down to the bags locker (below the munter mule) with a locker into the bag's locker using a clove hitch.
4. I clip a screamer into the bag's locker and clove into the rope again with ~3' loop of slack, long enough to allow the screamer to deploy.

Trick: As you leave the anchor DO NOT leave the rope redirected through a bolt with a draw unless your first piece is bunk. If you fall the bag will suck up into the draw and the screamer won't deploy. Because you have the screamer a fall right off the anchor will not be bad, not factor 2 effectively.

Cleaning: I personally don't have a problem jugging on a pro-traxion or other man rated toothed devices. I tie a backup knot on the other side of the device with a enough slack to allow me to start hualing without disconnecting (~5').

Release: My tether is the remnants of an old 7mm cordelette, about 15' total. It is looped through my swivel and tied with a figure 8. I use both strands for a munter mule. PTPP/Chongo's docking know is a PITA compared to the good old munter-mule, but works fine too.


Partner pbcowboy77


Nov 29, 2007, 5:54 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Haul Bag tech tips!? Please? [In reply to]
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When You dock you pig use a docking cord.

I don't have the time to explain it right now but here is a link...

http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=59211;search_string=docking%20cord;#59211


If you don't get it through pete's banter shoot me a message and I'll come back and try and explain with pic's.


As far as rapping your haul line, I just rap off the device but I don't use the Pro Traxion I use the Kong Block Roll, it's a WAY WAY WAY better device. But if you don't trust your hauling device the prusik knot is a great idea


Hope this helped.

If you want to learn some great Wall Stuff check out pass the pitons pete. He's no longer a user but his stuff is still posted. I've read through all of his stuff. It's great and you'll learn a lot of better ways of doing things.


Partner holdplease2


Nov 30, 2007, 7:58 AM
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Re: [pbcowboy77] Haul Bag tech tips!? Please? [In reply to]
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If you've never whipped close to the anchor on a "Solid multidirectional anchor" or been kicked in the back by a mule, you wouldn't understand just how important it is to have a dynamic aspect of your anchor.

Usually this is a belayer, with a body that deforms a bit and lifts a bit when you hit after the fall.

In a solo system, with just 20 feet of rope out, a 10 foot fall onto a completely static anchor really hurts. I've managed to do this twice now, because I'm a moron, and it won't be happening again. (Both were free climbing falls, but the idea is the same)

You should encorporate a dynamic aspect into your system. This can be done in one of three ways:

* A screamer integrated at the anchor point: You can tie the end of your line into your main powerpoint, then clip a screamer to a separate point in your anchor and connect the rope, with some slack in the system, to this. Do NOT use a clove hitch here, becuase if the biner smashes aganst some part of your anchor or rock and pinches the rope, you can die. It has happened in Yosmite to a soloist who used a clove in this way.

* Screamers on your first 8-10 pieces of pro: This integrates a dynamic element into your anchor until you have enough rope out or a low enough fall factor to avoid risking really wrenching your back or ripping gear in your system.

* Clip the rope into your pig in addition to your anchor point. I don't do this, some people love it. Thing is, the weight of your pig changes dramatically as you climb. Clipping into a 300 pound pig won't add much dynamic action to your anchor, I would think (but don't know...) Plus, why complicate what happens at your anchor when you fall? Screamers are simple things with known activation forces.

Anyway, hope that helps.

-Kate.


kristoffer


Nov 30, 2007, 9:20 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Haul Bag tech tips!? Please? [In reply to]
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I couldn’t agree with Kate anymore about falling onto your anchor.. However I just dont believe that using the pig as part of a belay system is the best way… now im not saying that it’s the WRONG way, it very well might work great! its just not how I run my system.. on numerous occasion I have been in the situation were I didn’t have a pig to put into my system or the pig was to light (top of the route)… so I build my belay with screamers integrated and also back them up incase of any possible fail… I have ripped down to my anchor on several occasions wile aid climbing( I guess I am a moron as well), however the only time it hurt is when I didn’t have screamers integrated into my system.

So I am just trying to put out that it might not be a bad idea to know how to build a “dynamic” solo belay… it could really help for one of those situations when you don’t have a haul bag to use as a pig belayer.

Cheers


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