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shockabuku
Nov 28, 2007, 1:23 PM
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Yes. That gear isn't lost or mislaid, it's deliberately abandoned.
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bizarrodrinker
Nov 28, 2007, 1:25 PM
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There's a difference here. When someone loses a ring it is not intentional.
For climbers, they are INTENTIONALLY leaving a piece behind because they can't get it out. So it isn't lost. They know exactly where it is and could stay and work on it if they choose too.
Now if a piece was dropped on a walking path and was marked in some way, i would probably make efforts to return it because it was an accidental loss.
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dbrayack
Nov 28, 2007, 1:32 PM
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I had someone ask for a bail biner back one time...I was like..."Um, the only reason I did the route was for the booty."
I gave it back to his friend later since he didn't think I was joking and didn't talk to me the rest of the day.
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granite_grrl
Nov 28, 2007, 1:44 PM
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I left a nut at a belay. I could have kept working on it, but opted to get out of the way for the next party (multi pitch). The next party said if they could get it out and saw me they'd give it back.
Never saw them again, but the offer was cool. I hope they got the nut out and kept it.
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dbrayack
Nov 28, 2007, 1:48 PM
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Note to self...follow granite girl up routes for some EASY booty  ...oh wait, did I just say that?
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king_rat
Nov 28, 2007, 1:55 PM
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the article seems to be suggesting that you must make responsible efforts to return found items, and that the greater the value of the item the greater your effort should be.
so if you find a biner worth a few $, then having a quick look round to see if the owner is at the crag is a reasonable effort, if you find an entire rack then yes you should make more of an effort to return it.
it just seems like common decency, a trait that is probably lacking from the pair that “found” the diamond ring.
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azrockclimber
Nov 28, 2007, 3:05 PM
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hmmm... completely unrelated to booty'ing climbing gear.
That has nothing to do with intentionally abandoned climbing gear....If you leave it I'm taking it and keeping it....If I leave it you can do the same.
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ja1484
Nov 28, 2007, 3:11 PM
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Rings aren't booty. And yes, booty is booty.
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mturner
Nov 28, 2007, 3:20 PM
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So what about unintentionally left gear like chalkbags, sunglasses, cameras, etc?
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ja1484
Nov 28, 2007, 3:34 PM
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mturner wrote: So what about unintentionally left gear like chalkbags, sunglasses, cameras, etc?
You seem to be confused as to what constitutes booty.
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mturner
Nov 28, 2007, 3:38 PM
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ja1484 wrote: mturner wrote: So what about unintentionally left gear like chalkbags, sunglasses, cameras, etc? You seem to be confused as to what constitutes booty.
No I get it, but the original story had to do with something that was not booty so the real issue is what about the gear that isn't booty.
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Tree_wrangler
Nov 28, 2007, 3:46 PM
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Probably depends on what it is and where it is.....A camera, wallet, keys, cell phone, money-clip, etc. probably deserve a little effort to return them.
Can you imagine? "Found. $1000.00 at Smith Rock. Whoever can describe the bills gets them returned."
I've got a nice cam stuck in "Crazy Crack" on the Upper Umpqua Rocks.......it's yours if you can get it out of there. Don't try to return it. It's yours.
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markc
Nov 28, 2007, 3:49 PM
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Put me in the confused column. A lost ring (or any item) can't be compared with something intentionally abandoned. If you leave gear because it's stuck or to bail, there isn't any assumption that you'll get it back.
You'd have a better comparison with recovering a backpack from the crag. In that case it's likely been forgotten. By removing it, you're taking away the chance of the owner coming back and recovering it. The right thing to do is to make an effort to return it. (That said, I confess I've picked up a sling or two mid-route and forgot about them by the end of the day.)
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ja1484
Nov 28, 2007, 4:34 PM
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mturner wrote: ja1484 wrote: mturner wrote: So what about unintentionally left gear like chalkbags, sunglasses, cameras, etc? You seem to be confused as to what constitutes booty. No I get it, but the original story had to do with something that was not booty so the real issue is what about the gear that isn't booty.
What about it?
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j_ung
Nov 28, 2007, 4:37 PM
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Lesson number one: If you booty gear in Oregon, don't blab about it.
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rsmillbern
Nov 28, 2007, 4:45 PM
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Well, if you find over $10K worth of booty you are doing something... ;-)
"Honest, I thought these 12 racks were 'abandoned' here!"
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rsmillbern
Nov 28, 2007, 4:46 PM
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I generally try to get gear back home when I find it, I can use all the good karma I can generate!
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mojede
Nov 28, 2007, 4:49 PM
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"Is booty really booty?"
Depends on whether you are a pirate, or a gangsta.
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chossmonkey
Nov 28, 2007, 6:09 PM
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mturner wrote: ja1484 wrote: mturner wrote: So what about unintentionally left gear like chalkbags, sunglasses, cameras, etc? You seem to be confused as to what constitutes booty. No I get it, but the original story had to do with something that was not booty so the real issue is what about the gear that isn't booty.
And what constitutes "Booty".
What if you take a n00b out climbing and they second you on a route and forget to take out a piece of your gear?
What about quickdraws left on a route that someone is actively working?
A pack stashed at the base of the cliff over night?
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markc
Nov 28, 2007, 6:24 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: And what constitutes "Booty". What if you take a n00b out climbing and they second you on a route and forget to take out a piece of your gear?
How do you forget to clean a piece of gear? I'd say booty if you realized it was missing and decided not to go after it.
chossmonkey wrote: What about quickdraws left on a route that someone is actively working?
Those are project draws, and not booty. They were intentionally left for a future attempt. They aren't lost or abandoned.
chossmonkey wrote: A pack stashed at the base of the cliff over night?
Not booty. The last two items may indicate questionable judgement, but there is obviously the intention to reclaim. It requires some faith to leave project draws in place or to leave a pack full of gear overnight. Again, none of these examples necessarily equate to a lost ring.
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bizarrodrinker
Nov 28, 2007, 6:30 PM
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one draw on a route is booty cause the person was obviously too dumb to just leave a biner.
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ja1484
Nov 28, 2007, 6:33 PM
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bizarrodrinker wrote: one draw on a route is booty cause the person was obviously too dumb to just leave a biner.
One 'biner is booty, because the person was obivously too dumb to just downclimb :)
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mturner
Nov 28, 2007, 8:21 PM
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markc wrote: chossmonkey wrote: And what constitutes "Booty". What if you take a n00b out climbing and they second you on a route and forget to take out a piece of your gear? How do you forget to clean a piece of gear? I'd say booty if you realized it was missing and decided not to go after it.
Exactly, but that's the issue. If you find gear on the wall you can't assume what the climber that left it was thinking or if he was thinking about it at all. So how can you assume intention?
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granite_grrl
Nov 28, 2007, 8:34 PM
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mturner wrote: markc wrote: chossmonkey wrote: And what constitutes "Booty". What if you take a n00b out climbing and they second you on a route and forget to take out a piece of your gear? How do you forget to clean a piece of gear? I'd say booty if you realized it was missing and decided not to go after it. Exactly, but that's the issue. If you find gear on the wall you can't assume what the climber that left it was thinking or if he was thinking about it at all. So how can you assume intention?
I got one one climb a couple of summers ago, we found a cams, maybe a nut and a bunch of draws. Comple of n00bs who did some wonky things with the rope for the second. I had talked to them earlier about it.
We gave the gear back.
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