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whiskeybullets


Dec 11, 2007, 4:12 PM
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southern trad
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I'm wanting to head out for a couple days in late December to climb some trad in the south-east U.S. Where are the best winter destinations for moderate grades in TN, AL, GA? I usually head to T-wall but am looking for something else this year.

Cheers


ja1484


Dec 11, 2007, 4:14 PM
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Any particular reason you'd climb in those states when NC is right here?


rock_fencer


Dec 11, 2007, 4:43 PM
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Re: [ja1484] southern trad [In reply to]
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how are conditions in NC so far? Im going back home to SC but a possible excursion to the bald or any other nice warm locale. Is chimney rock open yet to climbing? Whats the access issues with the bald too (its been 5 years since ive been there).


styndall


Dec 11, 2007, 4:45 PM
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ja1484 wrote:

Any particular reason you'd climb in those states when NC is right here?

Climbing sandstone is fun.


ja1484


Dec 11, 2007, 5:13 PM
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Re: [rock_fencer] southern trad [In reply to]
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rock_fencer wrote:
how are conditions in NC so far? Im going back home to SC but a possible excursion to the bald or any other nice warm locale. Is chimney rock open yet to climbing? Whats the access issues with the bald too (its been 5 years since ive been there).


What do you mean "conditions"? We only have 1: Mild. It was 74 degrees and breezy today.

Chimney Rock will never be open to public access in the forseeable future. NC State Parks allowed a "good ol' boy" group to form an LLC to manage a park bought with MY tax dollars, and said management only allows Fox Mountain Guides (may they rot) to take climbers there. Go to Laurel Knob instead.

The bald is open, but don't cause a stir when there, pack out your litter, and generally don't be a dick.


styndall wrote:

Climbing sandstone is fun.


Maybe, but if you're going to do that, just go to the New. Sandstone don't get much better. But then, the trad there is mostly middling with occasional bits of exceptional.


(This post was edited by ja1484 on Dec 11, 2007, 5:17 PM)


CLIMBNBIKER


Dec 11, 2007, 5:14 PM
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Tennessee.......It's just hard to beat the T-Wall. Sunset if you can catch a mild winter day.
Castle Rock is an incredible piece of stone that catches sun all day. Not sure exactly what's up there in the way of trad, but I intend to find out real soon.

Georgia.......Tallulah Gorge.......nuff said.

Alabama......I'm probably not the one to say, but I hear Griffin Falls and Jamestown are good.

I also suspect some of my partners will be weighing in on this topic once they catch a glimpse of this thread. They know Alabama better than I.


rock_fencer


Dec 11, 2007, 5:41 PM
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thanks for the info. Last time i was at the bald it was a balmy 38 F out and my brother is a pansy from california


ja1484


Dec 11, 2007, 6:27 PM
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rock_fencer wrote:
thanks for the info. Last time i was at the bald it was a balmy 38 F out and my brother is a pansy from california


Yeah, there's ice climbing here sometimes. Generally though, you can climb year round with the proper clothing and by sticking to the right crags. Stone Mtn, Sauratown Mtn, Pilot Mtn, all face south and bake in the sun all day. I was at Crowder's Mtn last year on the 23rd of Dec. climbing shirtless. This is, generally speaking, a fanfuckingtastic state for Winter climbing.


rock_fencer


Dec 11, 2007, 6:35 PM
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not a huge fan of crowders.

Last time i was there with my family and we got to the parking lot 15 minutes after sunset because my mom was having trouble walking (shes got a bum knee). The ranger told me and my brother to freeze when we got to the parking lot with his hand on his holster and started to lecture ME on how i should have been on time. Ofcourse once the rest of the family was there he toned it down quite a bit. This happened maybe a year and a half ago. Granted the guys doing his job but a little overboard threatening uswith a trespassing ticket. I told him to just give it to me and so i can go home. Parents didnt like that one too much :)


sthcrag510


Dec 11, 2007, 7:37 PM
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Re: [whiskeybullets] southern trad [In reply to]
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As far as Alabama Trad climbing goes...

Griffin Falls has some great routes. Especially Knife Crack one of the best routes i've been on.

Jamestown has a good stuff.

Georgia the place to be would be Talluah Gorge. Great rock, great routes, multi-pitch can't beat it.

TN has a bunch of great stuff.

T-Wall, Sunset, Suck Creek, just to name a few

If you want quality routes and a bunch of them TN would be the place to be if you ask me.


ja1484


Dec 11, 2007, 8:11 PM
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rock_fencer wrote:
not a huge fan of crowders.

Last time i was there with my family and we got to the parking lot 15 minutes after sunset because my mom was having trouble walking (shes got a bum knee). The ranger told me and my brother to freeze when we got to the parking lot with his hand on his holster and started to lecture ME on how i should have been on time. Ofcourse once the rest of the family was there he toned it down quite a bit. This happened maybe a year and a half ago. Granted the guys doing his job but a little overboard threatening uswith a trespassing ticket. I told him to just give it to me and so i can go home. Parents didnt like that one too much :)


Crowder's is horrible. The worst crag in the state, IMO. Long, strenuous approach for chossy toprope routes. We had never climbed there before and decided to check it out. We have since decided not to check it out any more.

I told that anecdote to basically point out that we were climbing two days before christmas in nothing but a harness and shorts.


Partner j_ung


Dec 11, 2007, 8:57 PM
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ja1484 wrote:
Maybe, but if you're going to do that, just go to the New. Sandstone don't get much better. But then, the trad there is mostly middling with occasional bits of exceptional.

WHAAAAAT!?

You, sir, have obviously not spent much time tradding at the New. I would say that trad here is exceptional, with occasional bits of middling, and I would guess that vast majority of people who come here to climb over gear agree. Good good, man, have you ever been to Junkyard? Endless Wall? Meadow River? Fern Buttress? BEAUTY MOUNTAIN, for crissakes!?

AAAUUUGH! AAAUUUUUUUUUGGHH!!!1


ja1484


Dec 12, 2007, 4:24 AM
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j_ung wrote:
WHAAAAAT!?

You, sir, have obviously not spent much time tradding at the New. I would say that trad here is exceptional, with occasional bits of middling, and I would guess that vast majority of people who come here to climb over gear agree. Good good, man, have you ever been to Junkyard? Endless Wall? Meadow River? Fern Buttress? BEAUTY MOUNTAIN, for crissakes!?

AAAUUUGH! AAAUUUUUUUUUGGHH!!!1

I think this is the part where Jay stops liking me. (assuming he did not already harbor a bitter hate in the first place)

A lot of the routes up there are not bad by any stretch, but they are short, and at times there's a *lot* of walking to get to said short climbs. It's arguable that for some people, a route needs both quality and length. I would be making that argument for myself right now. Jaws, for example, was some of the best fun I've ever had on crack, but it was over in about 70 feet. 4 Sheets to the Wind at Junkyard is similar, if you replace crack with overhung jugs (more fun with overhung j_ungs?) - problem is, there's just not much to the bastards.

Junkyard, Fern, Endless, Bridge Buttress...there's great quality routes there, but the problem is you can lower off 'em Unsure If I'm gonna get the rack out, I'm looking for a day with 10 pitches over maybe two routes, not 10 pitches over 8 routes.

I know you gotta give love for the local bias, and I love the New for its bolt clipping, but there are just many other crags within close proximity that I'd rather trad at.


(This post was edited by ja1484 on Dec 12, 2007, 4:27 AM)


saxfiend


Dec 12, 2007, 7:35 AM
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ja1484 wrote:
Any particular reason you'd climb in those states when NC is right here?
You're used to it now so you probably don't remember that NC is far too scary a place for outsiders to climb without some psychological preparation. Let him ease into it by doing a few 5.8 leads at T-Wall with nothing but a #2 Camalot and a couple of tricams on his rack, then he'll be ready for NC runout.

JL


Partner j_ung


Dec 12, 2007, 7:42 AM
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ja1484 wrote:
Junkyard, Fern, Endless, Bridge Buttress...there's great quality routes there, but the problem is you can lower off 'em Unsure

Size queen. Tongue

Okay, I accept, but don't agree with, your opinion of what constitutes "exceptional." It's true, the New doesn't exactly have a plethora of grade II and above routes.


whiskeybullets


Dec 12, 2007, 11:12 AM
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Re: [saxfiend] southern trad [In reply to]
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I've done my fair share of climbing in NC, but I have to disagree with your assessment of the weather as mild. My beard has been iced over on more than one occasion while at looking glass.

I'll have my girlfriend with me so I'm looking for south facing sunny crags. T-Wall is awesome for december climbing. I usually end up in a t-shirt by noon. I'm just wanting to broaden my horizons and visit new areas.

Are Tallulah Gorge and Jamestown sunny and south facing? I've never been and the Cragger's atlas doesn't comment on sun exposure for many locations.


dwise


Dec 12, 2007, 11:41 AM
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ja1484 wrote:
j_ung wrote:
WHAAAAAT!?

You, sir, have obviously not spent much time tradding at the New. I would say that trad here is exceptional, with occasional bits of middling, and I would guess that vast majority of people who come here to climb over gear agree. Good good, man, have you ever been to Junkyard? Endless Wall? Meadow River? Fern Buttress? BEAUTY MOUNTAIN, for crissakes!?

AAAUUUGH! AAAUUUUUUUUUGGHH!!!1

I think this is the part where Jay stops liking me. (assuming he did not already harbor a bitter hate in the first place)

A lot of the routes up there are not bad by any stretch, but they are short, and at times there's a *lot* of walking to get to said short climbs. It's arguable that for some people, a route needs both quality and length. I would be making that argument for myself right now. Jaws, for example, was some of the best fun I've ever had on crack, but it was over in about 70 feet. 4 Sheets to the Wind at Junkyard is similar, if you replace crack with overhung jugs (more fun with overhung j_ungs?) - problem is, there's just not much to the bastards.

Junkyard, Fern, Endless, Bridge Buttress...there's great quality routes there, but the problem is you can lower off 'em Unsure If I'm gonna get the rack out, I'm looking for a day with 10 pitches over maybe two routes, not 10 pitches over 8 routes.

I know you gotta give love for the local bias, and I love the New for its bolt clipping, but there are just many other crags within close proximity that I'd rather trad at.

Sshhhhh J-ung....that just leaves all of those excellent quality lines free of crowds. Sing it ja1484, yeah those trad routes are only middling, definitely stay away or go clip bolts....

(for the record J-ung, I think the boy's smoking some funny weed too. The trad at the New is much better than the sport climbing IMO). I like getting a few pitches off the deck, too, but the quality of the cracks at the New is pretty-darn amazing.


hyhuu


Dec 12, 2007, 12:03 PM
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Where are the good trad routes at the Meadow? I've been there a few time but only got to clip bolts. Thanks.

hyhuu

WHAAAAAT!?

You, sir, have obviously not spent much time tradding at the New. I would say that trad here is exceptional, with occasional bits of middling, and I would guess that vast majority of people who come here to climb over gear agree. Good good, man, have you ever been to Junkyard? Endless Wall? Meadow River? Fern Buttress? BEAUTY MOUNTAIN, for crissakes!?

AAAUUUGH! AAAUUUUUUUUUGGHH!!!1


saxfiend


Dec 12, 2007, 1:18 PM
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Re: [whiskeybullets] southern trad [In reply to]
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whiskeybullets wrote:
Are Tallulah Gorge and Jamestown sunny and south facing?
Both are sunny and (more or less) south facing. Tallulah especially is pleasant in the winter due to its exposure. Jamestown is more shaded, but still a very nice winter destination except on the most frigid days.

As to good winter climbing in NC, the South Face at Looking Glass is very nice, full sun all day. Stone Mountain is one of those places where the colder it is, the better the friction.

JL


climbrox391


Dec 12, 2007, 2:15 PM
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You may have been at Upper Meadow, not too many gear routes up there that I've seen. There are however some stellar lines at lower (downstream from the bridge).


ja1484


Dec 12, 2007, 3:40 PM
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j_ung wrote:
ja1484 wrote:
Junkyard, Fern, Endless, Bridge Buttress...there's great quality routes there, but the problem is you can lower off 'em Unsure

Size queen. Tongue

Okay, I accept, but don't agree with, your opinion of what constitutes "exceptional." It's true, the New doesn't exactly have a plethora of grade II and above routes.


Dude, believe me, it breaks my heart. Zag is probably the most fun I've ever had on a 5.8 - I only wish it were longer than ~90ft.



saxfiend wrote:
ja1484 wrote:
Any particular reason you'd climb in those states when NC is right here?
You're used to it now so you probably don't remember that NC is far too scary a place for outsiders to climb without some psychological preparation. Let him ease into it by doing a few 5.8 leads at T-Wall with nothing but a #2 Camalot and a couple of tricams on his rack, then he'll be ready for NC runout.

JL

Heh, funny you should mention that. Was out at Moore's Wall today and got on Almost Seven (aka Golden Earring). Not sure if I was above or below the traverse, or right on route, but there was a section in there where I made a rising traverse for about 35 feet with no pro. The holds were huge, so it wasn't worrisome, but you make a good point - this state can be pissy about pro sometimes.

On a related note, we couldn't find the nest of fixed pins that supposedly denotes the finish of the route either, so we just played "make your own exit" through a section that looked feasible. I ran out of draws/spare biners about 35 feet below the topout and had to run it out above a smallish nut as my only pro for that section (Praise be, it was about 5.4 and a total jug haul).


(This post was edited by ja1484 on Dec 12, 2007, 3:47 PM)


saxfiend


Dec 12, 2007, 9:30 PM
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ja1484 wrote:
On a related note, we couldn't find the nest of fixed pins that supposedly denotes the finish of the route either
Contrary to what the "Selected" book shows on the topo, it's not fixed pins, but two or three big fixed nuts with a cable attached for rapping off of. This is right about at the end of the roof traverse, not quite sure how you missed it.

I remember kind of shaking my head at the rap stations I found at Moore's. Apparently, they have a fetish against bolted rap anchors. Fantastic climbing, though! Almost Seven/Golden Earring is an excellent lead, glad you found a way out at the top.

JL


alpinerockfiend


Dec 12, 2007, 10:59 PM
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ja, iI see a bit of (intended?) irony in your post. You rag on Jaws and Zag for being short, then add 30-40' on to both routes!
I'll second everyone who's been plugging the New. You'd be hard pressed to find a better area in the country with more quality 5.10 trad routes. 5.11 and up, things thin out a LITTLE, but still tons of fun stuff.


ja1484


Dec 13, 2007, 4:47 AM
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alpinerockfiend wrote:
ja, iI see a bit of (intended?) irony in your post. You rag on Jaws and Zag for being short, then add 30-40' on to both routes!
I'll second everyone who's been plugging the New. You'd be hard pressed to find a better area in the country with more quality 5.10 trad routes. 5.11 and up, things thin out a LITTLE, but still tons of fun stuff.


Someone pays attention...sort of. I didn't really rag 'em, I actually really liked 'em :p

I guess how you measure Zag depends on whether you measure it from the deck, or on top of that giant block at the base that you pretty much have to scramble up.

saxfiend wrote:
ja1484 wrote:
On a related note, we couldn't find the nest of fixed pins that supposedly denotes the finish of the route either
Contrary to what the "Selected" book shows on the topo, it's not fixed pins, but two or three big fixed nuts with a cable attached for rapping off of. This is right about at the end of the roof traverse, not quite sure how you missed it.

I remember kind of shaking my head at the rap stations I found at Moore's. Apparently, they have a fetish against bolted rap anchors. Fantastic climbing, though! Almost Seven/Golden Earring is an excellent lead, glad you found a way out at the top.

JL


I think that may be gone now - there was some fixed gear in the location you described, but it consisted of a crusty, semi-faded sling with a rap ring around a rather large but freestanding block. I believe my exact words were: "What the...hell no!"

And yeah, I hear you about the fixed anchors. We topped out, made our way to *another* rap station consisting of two leaver biners and about 4 chunks of tied webbing and rapped from there, playing that odds that not all 4 pieces would blow at once.


whipperman


Dec 13, 2007, 8:45 PM
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The Moore's rap above Golden Earring in the Amphitheater is very much still intact. The anchor is directly above the route Quaker State which is about 30 feet to the left of G.E. Probably about 105 ft. (I own a 70 m rope specifically for Moore's wall). It is right at the end of the roof that you are traversing under on G.E. and just below the ledge at the top of the amphitheater. A fantastic anchor and much better than placing two bolts (easier to replace after wear and tear and no scarring of the rock).

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