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robdotcalm
Aug 17, 2007, 3:44 AM
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fng wrote: Same kinda thing happened to me a year ago. I was climbing on my lunch hour at the gym and trying to stick this one route. I was solo and using an auto belay. I couldn't seem to get the last move at the top which was like a two finger lieback. I unclipped to mentally climb the route and shake out. I psyched my self up and took off up the route. Got to the crux on that last move, 25'-30' up, and couldn't pull it. I decided to come down again and shake out longer. I jump out from the wall expecting the auto belay to catch me but nothing. I had forgot to clip in during my intense focus on the moves. .... I thought about that fall every time I thought about climbing, which is all the time, and I had some serious head games with the whole thing. I am pretty much over it but I always double and triple check I am clipped in while climbing with an autobelay at the gym.
When I use an auto-belay, I always climb up a few feet and fall to make sure it's holding me. Something to consider.
rob.calm
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stymingersfink
Aug 17, 2007, 4:08 AM
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deschamps1000 wrote: dreday3000 wrote: he was using a gri gri You can still get dropped with a gri gri. It happened in our climbing community recently.
the other option doesn't seem nearly as probable.
troll, perhaps?
doubt it... just a fucked up situation. time for a new belayer.
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billcoe_
Aug 17, 2007, 5:45 AM
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Bet you're sorry to have shared it with us eh?
BTW, I canot do a 6' dyno, and don't really get into gym climbing, but once, after climbing (outside on cliffs), I knocked back 3 maybe 4 full sized cocktails and thought it would be fun to go do a boulder circuit.
It wasn't.
Fell right off the rock into some rough boulders then rolled down a hill. Probably felt like you did but hurt a bit more.
Where was I going? Oh
huuhuu
Oh, gotta just get back on the horse and do an objective look at your situation. Then move on.
Sober in my case:-)
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majid_sabet
Aug 17, 2007, 6:07 AM
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glytch wrote: From Majid: In reply to: come on, I know you would trust me if I tell you people do it all the time. .... uhh, what? people misjudge almost 10m of rope while belaying all the time?! This isn't a few extra feet of slack, this is approaching 20% of your entire rope length! If anyone regularly (or ever) is able to let out 20% of the rope by accident, well, they shouldn't be climbing.
You bet there are plenty of climbers who go for 20,40 even 70 footer but number 30 is the most common one.if you come to I&A, I can assure I posted tons of report like our OP.
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cracklover
Aug 17, 2007, 2:30 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: glytch wrote: From Majid: In reply to: come on, I know you would trust me if I tell you people do it all the time. .... uhh, what? people misjudge almost 10m of rope while belaying all the time?! This isn't a few extra feet of slack, this is approaching 20% of your entire rope length! If anyone regularly (or ever) is able to let out 20% of the rope by accident, well, they shouldn't be climbing. You bet there are plenty of climbers who go for 20,40 even 70 footer but number 30 is the most common one.if you come to I&A, I can assure I posted tons of report like our OP.
This is simply nonsense.
GO
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aarong
Aug 17, 2007, 3:06 PM
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I don't normally reply to these but one point hasn't been mentioned yet - maybe he did it on purpose? I don't mean maliciously but in fun. Maybe he thought it would be funny if you took a big ride if you missed the dyno - you know, pay out a couple more arm lengths of slack. That combined with misjudging the distance to ground and accidently keeping his hand over the gri-gri could have caused this.
I don't know your friend/belayer - maybe this isn't him - maybe this isn't what happened after all - but playing around happens a lot in gyms - especially on big moves and dynos. I've seen it numerous times - you know - "penalty slack."
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jt512
Aug 17, 2007, 3:59 PM
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cracklover wrote: majid_sabet wrote: [anything] This is simply nonsense.
This all you the information you need to come to that conclusion.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 17, 2007, 4:00 PM)
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NSFW
Aug 17, 2007, 4:00 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: glytch wrote: From Majid: In reply to: come on, I know you would trust me if I tell you people do it all the time. .... uhh, what? people misjudge almost 10m of rope while belaying all the time?! This isn't a few extra feet of slack, this is approaching 20% of your entire rope length! If anyone regularly (or ever) is able to let out 20% of the rope by accident, well, they shouldn't be climbing. You bet there are plenty of climbers who go for 20,40 even 70 footer but number 30 is the most common one.if you come to I&A, I can assure I posted tons of report like our OP.
You’ve posted tons of reports. Those that were intelligible were usually bullshit; be it B.S. assumptions, B.S. analysis, or just plain crap. I like your drawings though.
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cracklover
Aug 17, 2007, 7:18 PM
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jt512 wrote: cracklover wrote: majid_sabet wrote: [anything] This is simply nonsense. This all you the information you need to come to that conclusion. Jay
Be that as it may, on occasion, it needs to be said.
GO
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 18, 2007, 2:42 AM
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dreday3000 wrote: Basta916 wrote: from what you posted.. you got dropped....sounds like another human error  .....oh yea , grigri or not, its not a gear that failed in your story True, but the human is part of "the system' that you trust. The bottom line is that I've generally be able to assume that when I fall, baring marginal pro, I expect 'the system' to hold me. Whether a ATC explodes or my belayer goes into an epileptic fit is irrelevant.
And some humans must be considered "marginal pro." THere is a big difference between a system with a good belayer and one without.
Josh
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tahamsh
Sep 3, 2007, 2:17 AM
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I saw, well actually heard, somebody deck at the gym a few weeks ago. I don't know if it was the OP or not (this guy yelled "I'm OK" right afterwards too.) This leader had a large build and the belayer was significantly smaller. I saw the belayer up at the first clip on a subsequent fall and assumed that's why the leader decked on the overhang earlier.
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jaybro
Sep 3, 2007, 5:25 AM
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a grounder with over head pro?
With out video we will never know, but sounds like the dreaded, 'Squeeze.' The good news is that this is easy to correct, especially with this incident as a learning tool.
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foeslts16
Dec 30, 2007, 8:55 AM
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deschamps1000 wrote: Though, one more comment, even if the belayer did mess up; shit happens and people make mistakes. In the end you are okay and the belayer probably learned a good lesson. No need to come down on him too hard. He probably feels bad enough.
Are you INSANE? “The belayer probably learned a good lesson”. “No need to come down on him too hard. He probably feels bad enough.”
If this guy actually didn’t take up slack, or failed somehow in his belaying duties. WTF!!
“Sry Bob, I dropped you. That’s alright we both learned a very good lesson today.” aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
You get ONE fucking chance at this, you mess it up – bye-bye.
I am totally amazed at how casual people are about their belayers. I don’t care if you have been climbing for 30yrs that’s not a guarantee that you can belay. I always go over the system and have someone I know stand by and watch any person that I am climbing with for the first time.
WOW – end of rant.
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socalclimber
Dec 30, 2007, 10:51 AM
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The details from the OP seem a bit sketchy to me, but this is what happens in accidents. When I used to work SAR here in Josh and we had to interview people in the aftermath it was always difficult. My experience has been that usually the people involved don't know what happened. This makes accident analysis very difficult.
As far as I can tell, the belayer blew it. Glad everyone's ok, this could have ended badly.
I agree with Jay about the leader having a long journey back. Can you imagine how the belayer must feel?
Again, glad everyone is ok.
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jmagnus17
Dec 30, 2007, 11:04 AM
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“Sry Bob, I dropped you. That’s alright we both learned a very good lesson today.”
That's my favorite part of your post! hahahaha
I would have to agree with you... I'm not too into even a half chance with people I just meet... perfect example was last night leading a 5.10+ish roof route at my gym... the route spans a good 60' up and out across the gym, at about 40' - 45' to the deck from the anchors... it starts after a 5.9 easy lead up to about 30' (vertical)... in short, falling from the next clip at your waist anywhere along the route isn't really a big deal... (assuming your belay catches you)
Second clip in, I told the guy that I had top roped with all night, who has been climbing for longer than I have been alive, to take... and I took about a 4' fall... Why? I could tell he'd rather be leaving the gym than belaying me on this route...
IMO: You should know your belayer better than he knows himself, and what he will or won't do in dynamic situations. Or you can just let your balls swing low again... might as well get into solo'ing then.
Don't mean to flame you, just avoid putting your absolute trust in a system or another person... that's how you or others get killed, or worse
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gobias
Dec 30, 2007, 3:40 PM
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Well, 2 feet above and 4 feet to the right isn't a 6 foot dyno. It's about 4.5 using the pythagorean theorem. But I don't know because I didn't really understand this situation. To me it sounded like not much slack was needed (relative to 20-30 feet). Not to mention, what gym puts a potential ground fall like that on a route? All bolts clipped, belayer on the ground, and the leader decks. I don't believe it.
Bolts in a gym are so close (for good reason) I've had a leader stop 10 feet from the ground (from 20 feet up) and been worried they wouldn't let me belay them again.
(This post was edited by gobias on Dec 31, 2007, 4:48 AM)
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billl7
Dec 30, 2007, 4:37 PM
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gobias wrote: Some of these estimates for how much slack should have been out are funny. Somebody estimated you should need 15 feet of slack for a 6 foot dyno. I don't care what the situation is, don't ever belay me.
The somebody was me. I was making the point that some leader moves are risky even in a gym. I'll be glad to not belay a leader who doesn't understand that.
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Dec 30, 2007, 4:38 PM)
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billl7
Dec 31, 2007, 4:57 PM
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To gobias' credit, I'll add that I virtually agree whole heartedly with his/her point. The vast majority of the reasons that a leader decks in the gym are belayer errors. The non-belayer reasons are almost nil - almost.
The earlier post I made in this thread was a stretch at trying to make a point out of the original post - a point that most likely did not apply. I have a tendancy to do this in general on RC.com and usually get knocked around a bit for it. C'est la vie.
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Dec 31, 2007, 5:01 PM)
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shockabuku
Dec 31, 2007, 5:42 PM
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billl7 wrote: The vast majority of the reasons that a leader decks in the gym are belayer errors. The non-belayer reasons are almost nil - almost. Bill L
Almost. The one I've come close to seeing on at least three occasions is skipping a clip (deliberately, or unintentionally and obscuring it from the belayer with the body).
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Myxomatosis
Jan 1, 2008, 11:12 AM
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My partner decked the other day  My first day having a go at Trad Climbing
She was climbing on pro and placed two peaces (very small nuts) and was standing about 1-2ft above my head (so perhaps 2-2.5m's high) and she made the mistake of saying "I think this peace is going to be jammed, might take some work to get it out"
Started to climb a little higher and had a little trouble getting into a chimney, no more than 0.5m from her harness to the pro, she fell pretty much straight down... I was belaying from right below her, nearly agasint the wall itself and had very little slack out... I held tight on the brake when I saw her weight fall backwards and tried to catch her...
But it all happened so quickly... All I remember thinking was, "shit shes fallen quite far for how much slack she had, ok gear must of pop'd but there is a 2nd peace"...and prepared for a big whipper.... "HOLY SHIT! shes coming down" and before I could even let go of the rope to try and spot her something she was on the deck...
Its an pretty awful feeling not being able to do anything in that situation. Even after, you can't really treat internal injuries like that, at least if it's a cut you can do the whole pressure and bandage but you don't really know what to do  , especially when Im sure most of us have hardly any medical training.
She landed a couple of cm's away from a very nasty rock and landed on half grass and rock (buried under ground, so flat surface but hard).. A very saw tail bone was the only injury...
I don't think this was a case of poor placements (she was pretty sure it was jammed in there to start with) or bad belaying on my part... just one of things that happen... an accident...
I think I might stick with sport awhile longer 
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billl7
Jan 1, 2008, 4:45 PM
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Someone should be working out exactly what went wrong there. By the way, "jammed" implies "hard to remove" with the usual finger/hand strength. "That will hold a fall" is something else.
If you want to explore this further online then a separate thread would be a good start.
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Jan 1, 2008, 4:45 PM)
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jt512
Jan 1, 2008, 6:22 PM
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Myxomatosis wrote: I don't think this was a case of poor placements (she was pretty sure it was jammed in there to start with) or bad belaying on my part... just one of things that happen... an accident... I think I might stick with sport awhile longer
If you don't get that it was a poor placement, then, yeah, stick to sport.
Jay
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shockabuku
Jan 1, 2008, 6:55 PM
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Myxomatosis wrote: My partner decked the other day My first day having a go at Trad Climbing She was climbing on pro and placed two peaces (very small nuts) and was standing about 1-2ft above my head (so perhaps 2-2.5m's high) and she made the mistake of saying "I think this peace is going to be jammed, might take some work to get it out" Started to climb a little higher and had a little trouble getting into a chimney, no more than 0.5m from her harness to the pro, she fell pretty much straight down... I was belaying from right below her, nearly agasint the wall itself and had very little slack out... I held tight on the brake when I saw her weight fall backwards and tried to catch her... But it all happened so quickly... All I remember thinking was, "shit shes fallen quite far for how much slack she had, ok gear must of pop'd but there is a 2nd peace"...and prepared for a big whipper.... "HOLY SHIT! shes coming down" and before I could even let go of the rope to try and spot her something she was on the deck... Its an pretty awful feeling not being able to do anything in that situation. Even after, you can't really treat internal injuries like that, at least if it's a cut you can do the whole pressure and bandage but you don't really know what to do , especially when Im sure most of us have hardly any medical training. She landed a couple of cm's away from a very nasty rock and landed on half grass and rock (buried under ground, so flat surface but hard).. A very saw tail bone was the only injury... I don't think this was a case of poor placements (she was pretty sure it was jammed in there to start with) or bad belaying on my part... just one of things that happen... an accident... I think I might stick with sport awhile longer
But wait, you didn't actually confirm to us that the piece pulled. Did it? I'm left assuming that it probably did but it's not clear.
Edited to add: Oh yeah, get some first aid training. You and your partner.
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Jan 1, 2008, 6:56 PM)
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