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thomasribiere
Jan 13, 2008, 7:44 PM
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An unknown frenchman from La Réunion claims a 9a for this sportclimbing 25 m high route :
see the video here :
http://bealplanet.com/...plete.php?idnews=125
Some french forumers already claim it seems way easier. What do you think?
(This post was edited by thomasribiere on Jan 17, 2008, 8:30 PM)
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jmagnus17
Jan 13, 2008, 8:05 PM
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thomasribiere wrote: An unknown frenchman from La Réunion claims a 9a for this sportclimbing 25 m high route : see the video here : http://bealplanet.com/...plete.php?idnews=125 Some french forumers already claim it seems way easier. What do you think?
I think... oh wait, your link doesn't go anywhere
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gogounou
Jan 14, 2008, 2:50 AM
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First off, I was really impressed with the video of that climb - regardless of how the rating of the route stands up. Secondly, though...well, maybe this isn't the place for this, maybe it is, but:
I've always taken exception to the pre-hung draws on a "red-point" route. I know that I don't climb anywhere near this level, but when I do climb a route, and claim that I've sent it, it involves clipping my own draws. Now, I've come to take for granted that at a certain level of climbing, these pre-hung-draw-red-points have become common place, so for the moment let's just brush that aside...
My question regarding this video pertains to the climber's 4th and 5th clips: both were done on draws extended to the point where I have to question whether or not the climber would have been able to make those clips had the draw had not been pre-placed. I understand that we're looking at a potentially dangerous situation had runners not been used, but as far as these draws go, I guess I just assumed that this risk is part of the sport.
Thoughts?
Jay
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jmagnus17
Jan 14, 2008, 3:01 AM
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gogounou wrote: First off, I was really impressed with the video of that climb - regardless of how the rating of the route stands up. Secondly, though...well, maybe this isn't the place for this, maybe it is, but: I've always taken exception to the pre-hung draws on a "red-point" route. I know that I don't climb anywhere near this level, but when I do climb a route, and claim that I've sent it, it involves clipping my own draws. Now, I've come to take for granted that at a certain level of climbing, these pre-hung-draw-red-points have become common place, so for the moment let's just brush that aside... My question regarding this video pertains to the climber's 4th and 5th clips: both were done on draws extended to the point where I have to question whether or not the climber would have been able to make those clips had the draw had not been pre-placed. I understand that we're looking at a potentially dangerous situation had runners not been used, but as far as these draws go, I guess I just assumed that this risk is part of the sport. Thoughts? Jay
Honestly, who the hell cares if they pre-hang their draws? This is technically referred to as a "pink-point ascent" but... let's be honest... it has everything to do with the fact that most climbs at that level (essentially 13 and higher) you don't really have a chance to spend time to not only clip a draw, but then clip the rope... it's just too hard.
Second, again who cares if they are hanging two draws or using runners? It just means that the climber wants to clip sooner than later in the climb. The difficulty of the route does not include clipping your pro along the way! Many people solo routes --- that doesn't make the route technically harder! (Although mentally harder!) So if a climber, who is at that level, thinks that he will use less energy or endurance to clip from a lower hold, then he will do so. Other times, routes are just bolted poorly or bolted by a climber with a very different style of climbing.
Perhaps Rambo was out there with his bolt gun and rapped down thinking he'd try out that sweet face that looked easy?
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doze
Jan 14, 2008, 3:08 AM
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Nice camera work. Awesome climber's upper body. But imho the moves seem to be easier than 9a.
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styndall
Jan 14, 2008, 3:20 AM
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gogounou wrote: I've always taken exception to the pre-hung draws on a "red-point" route. I know that I don't climb anywhere near this level, but when I do climb a route, and claim that I've sent it, it involves clipping my own draws. Now, I've come to take for granted that at a certain level of climbing, these pre-hung-draw-red-points have become common place, so for the moment let's just brush that aside...
Sport climbing isn't trad climbing. Unless you're drilling and bolting on lead, you're not placing your pro. It's a redpoint or a send or whatever you want to term it.
In reply to: My question regarding this video pertains to the climber's 4th and 5th clips: both were done on draws extended to the point where I have to question whether or not the climber would have been able to make those clips had the draw had not been pre-placed. I understand that we're looking at a potentially dangerous situation had runners not been used, but as far as these draws go, I guess I just assumed that this risk is part of the sport. Thoughts? Jay
What size draws would you require that he use to count his send? Should be on Petzl 5" dogbones? What about Metolius 7" ones? Would those be cheating? They're a bit longer, after all.
Is someone carrying a tripled runner allowed to use it untripled?
Artificial standards for draw length are just wankery.
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jh_angel
Jan 14, 2008, 3:43 AM
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styndall wrote: What size draws would you require that he use to count his send? Should be on Petzl 5" dogbones? What about Metolius 7" ones? Would those be cheating? They're a bit longer, after all. Is someone carrying a tripled runner allowed to use it untripled? Artificial standards for draw length are just wankery.
I think the point that gogounou was trying to get at was that if someone was going to lead it and place the draws, they would have to do so from a completely different stance than the ones in the video. So the problem is not with the length of the draw in and of itself, but how a pre-hung draw of that length alters the way someone climbs the route. Personally I think he had good stances to clip the draws where the bolts were placed and that if he only had the long runners on there to allow earlier clipping than that was unnecessary and takes something away from the climb.
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supersonick
Jan 14, 2008, 4:04 AM
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gogounou wrote: I've always taken exception to the pre-hung draws on a "red-point" route. I know that I don't climb anywhere near this level, but when I do climb a route, and claim that I've sent it, it involves clipping my own draws. Now, I've come to take for granted that at a certain level of climbing, these pre-hung-draw-red-points have become common place, so for the moment let's just brush that aside... My question regarding this video pertains to the climber's 4th and 5th clips: both were done on draws extended to the point where I have to question whether or not the climber would have been able to make those clips had the draw had not been pre-placed. I understand that we're looking at a potentially dangerous situation had runners not been used, but as far as these draws go, I guess I just assumed that this risk is part of the sport.
Jesus. Check your PMs, I think 1985 is looking for you.
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vegasguy
Jan 14, 2008, 4:52 AM
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I think the reason for the long 4th and 5th draws are not to make clipping any easier, although it seems it does. They are most likely used to cut down on the mass amount of rope drag that would likely be incurred once over the roof. This is just an idea. Any one else....
Cheers
Andy
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supersonick
Jan 14, 2008, 5:04 AM
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He had good stances at both of those bolts and could have clipped a normal length quickdraw easily.
100% those runners are for rope drag.
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wzrdgandalf
Jan 14, 2008, 5:15 AM
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My question is why did he even bother clipping the draws before the extended ones. If those were good places to clip twice then why not just clip the top one, be done with it, and dont get as pumped. I guess he was precarious on those stances so he didnt want to take a bigger fall?
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caughtinside
Jan 14, 2008, 5:17 AM
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First, if you watch the vid and don't speak french, skip the first third, it's an interview with the climber.
That was a pretty well done vid, neat route, looks hard!
Difficulty? I have no idea. I've watched lots of vids of high end routes. They all look super hard. Sometimes the climber looks like they're just hiking it, and sometimes they're sketchy and desperate. No clue how hard that thing is. Too hard for me!
Long draws? Those two long ones, look how far apart horizontally those bolts are. The drag on the upper half would be heinous if they weren't long. It sure didn't look like it did him any favors clipping that second one, a nearly horizontal layback clip above the head? WTF!! craziness!
But oh yeah he used long slings so it doesn't count. HAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!
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texasclimber
Jan 14, 2008, 8:27 PM
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wow. I really enjoyed this vid. As for the rating...look HARD, but 5.15, to me, looks impossible. I will be looking forward to the next send by a different climber to see if he/she agrees. I love the throw to the 2 finger ledge over the roof!
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rjtrials
Jan 14, 2008, 8:49 PM
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RAd video!! I saw it a week or so ago on UCMag.tv but the quality is definately better on the Beal site.
As for the grade? Who really knows? Greg has opened many hard routes in the past, so what if it is only 8c+ ! The route looks like it climbs very nice, maybe in a few years i will be strong enough to get on it :)
RJ
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camhead
Jan 14, 2008, 9:28 PM
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(directed mostly to Thomas or other French speakers)
Does the video say anything about how much, if any, manufacturing went into the route? I know that many hard routes in Europe are chipped to all hell; is this one?
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dynosore
Jan 14, 2008, 9:36 PM
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gogounou wrote: First off, I was really impressed with the video of that climb - regardless of how the rating of the route stands up. Secondly, though...well, maybe this isn't the place for this, maybe it is, but: I've always taken exception to the pre-hung draws on a "red-point" route. I know that I don't climb anywhere near this level, but when I do climb a route, and claim that I've sent it, it involves clipping my own draws. Now, I've come to take for granted that at a certain level of climbing, these pre-hung-draw-red-points have become common place, so for the moment let's just brush that aside... My question regarding this video pertains to the climber's 4th and 5th clips: both were done on draws extended to the point where I have to question whether or not the climber would have been able to make those clips had the draw had not been pre-placed. I understand that we're looking at a potentially dangerous situation had runners not been used, but as far as these draws go, I guess I just assumed that this risk is part of the sport. Thoughts? Jay
I'm with you. Clearly the reason to pre-hang draws is to make the route easier, less pumpy, etc. If you can't truly lead it, top rope it. Oh, that wouldn't look as cool in all the climbing rags, dangling from a toprope. Sad state of affairs when "top" climbers are bending the rules just to climb grades they couldn't otherwise send.
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caughtinside
Jan 14, 2008, 9:42 PM
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dynosore wrote: gogounou wrote: First off, I was really impressed with the video of that climb - regardless of how the rating of the route stands up. Secondly, though...well, maybe this isn't the place for this, maybe it is, but: I've always taken exception to the pre-hung draws on a "red-point" route. I know that I don't climb anywhere near this level, but when I do climb a route, and claim that I've sent it, it involves clipping my own draws. Now, I've come to take for granted that at a certain level of climbing, these pre-hung-draw-red-points have become common place, so for the moment let's just brush that aside... My question regarding this video pertains to the climber's 4th and 5th clips: both were done on draws extended to the point where I have to question whether or not the climber would have been able to make those clips had the draw had not been pre-placed. I understand that we're looking at a potentially dangerous situation had runners not been used, but as far as these draws go, I guess I just assumed that this risk is part of the sport. Thoughts? Jay I'm with you. Clearly the reason to pre-hang draws is to make the route easier, less pumpy, etc. If you can't truly lead it, top rope it. Oh, that wouldn't look as cool in all the climbing rags, dangling from a toprope. Sad state of affairs when "top" climbers are bending the rules just to climb grades they couldn't otherwise send.
Reading this kind of stuff always cracks me up.
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jcrew
Jan 14, 2008, 10:33 PM
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dynosore wrote: gogounou wrote: First off, I was really impressed with the video of that climb - regardless of how the rating of the route stands up. Secondly, though...well, maybe this isn't the place for this, maybe it is, but: I've always taken exception to the pre-hung draws on a "red-point" route. I know that I don't climb anywhere near this level, but when I do climb a route, and claim that I've sent it, it involves clipping my own draws. Now, I've come to take for granted that at a certain level of climbing, these pre-hung-draw-red-points have become common place, so for the moment let's just brush that aside... My question regarding this video pertains to the climber's 4th and 5th clips: both were done on draws extended to the point where I have to question whether or not the climber would have been able to make those clips had the draw had not been pre-placed. I understand that we're looking at a potentially dangerous situation had runners not been used, but as far as these draws go, I guess I just assumed that this risk is part of the sport. Thoughts? Jay I'm with you. Clearly the reason to pre-hang draws is to make the route easier, less pumpy, etc. If you can't truly lead it, top rope it. Oh, that wouldn't look as cool in all the climbing rags, dangling from a toprope. Sad state of affairs when "top" climbers are bending the rules just to climb grades they couldn't otherwise send.
could this be genius satire?
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styndall
Jan 14, 2008, 11:00 PM
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jcrew wrote: dynosore wrote: gogounou wrote: First off, I was really impressed with the video of that climb - regardless of how the rating of the route stands up. Secondly, though...well, maybe this isn't the place for this, maybe it is, but: I've always taken exception to the pre-hung draws on a "red-point" route. I know that I don't climb anywhere near this level, but when I do climb a route, and claim that I've sent it, it involves clipping my own draws. Now, I've come to take for granted that at a certain level of climbing, these pre-hung-draw-red-points have become common place, so for the moment let's just brush that aside... My question regarding this video pertains to the climber's 4th and 5th clips: both were done on draws extended to the point where I have to question whether or not the climber would have been able to make those clips had the draw had not been pre-placed. I understand that we're looking at a potentially dangerous situation had runners not been used, but as far as these draws go, I guess I just assumed that this risk is part of the sport. Thoughts? Jay I'm with you. Clearly the reason to pre-hang draws is to make the route easier, less pumpy, etc. If you can't truly lead it, top rope it. Oh, that wouldn't look as cool in all the climbing rags, dangling from a toprope. Sad state of affairs when "top" climbers are bending the rules just to climb grades they couldn't otherwise send. could this be genius satire?
no.
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shimanilami
Jan 14, 2008, 11:21 PM
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doze wrote: But imho the moves seem to be easier than 9a.
Agreed. From here, in the comfort of my office office chair, I'd say it goes at 5.11, tops.
Except for that one clip, which was clearly the crux of the route. If he'd placed that draw on lead, then I could see it as 5.15.
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supersonick
Jan 14, 2008, 11:28 PM
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dynosore wrote: I'm with you. Clearly the reason to pre-hang draws is to make the route easier, less pumpy, etc. If you can't truly lead it, top rope it. Oh, that wouldn't look as cool in all the climbing rags, dangling from a toprope. Sad state of affairs when "top" climbers are bending the rules just to climb grades they couldn't otherwise send.
They must not have many steep climbs up there in Michigan.
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boymeetsrock
Jan 14, 2008, 11:39 PM
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Crap.... There goes my onsight!!
Very nice video though. Some of the angels were very original, like the blad of grass in the foreground and the "rappel" shot (that one was sweet!)
I haven't been keeing up with the progression of climbing vids, but this one shows some great creativity.
-Boy
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pylonhead
Jan 15, 2008, 12:02 AM
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The rotating camera that follows the climber is sweet!
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gogounou
Jan 15, 2008, 3:12 PM
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supersonick wrote: gogounou wrote: I've always taken exception to the pre-hung draws on a "red-point" route. I know that I don't climb anywhere near this level, but when I do climb a route, and claim that I've sent it, it involves clipping my own draws. Now, I've come to take for granted that at a certain level of climbing, these pre-hung-draw-red-points have become common place, so for the moment let's just brush that aside... My question regarding this video pertains to the climber's 4th and 5th clips: both were done on draws extended to the point where I have to question whether or not the climber would have been able to make those clips had the draw had not been pre-placed. I understand that we're looking at a potentially dangerous situation had runners not been used, but as far as these draws go, I guess I just assumed that this risk is part of the sport. Jesus. Check your PMs, I think 1985 is looking for you.
Well played, sir. Well played.
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