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estwing
Oct 21, 2002, 3:11 AM
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Hi, I am curious as to whether double ropes have really helped you reduce rope drag on your climbing adventures?
Which doubles do you use?
Is it hard to adjust to belaying a leader on two ropes?
Thanks,
Sam
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tradpuppy
Oct 21, 2002, 3:41 AM
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Hey, go down to the bottom on "forums search" and type in "double ropes". You'll find some good info. I have used them on N.C. trad routes and found the sketch factor to be much reduced on lead. Belaying takes some getting used to as the rope not recently clipped develops slack, but then you get accustomed after a few pitches. I'm ordering a set of Mammut 8.5's next week.
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tradklime
Oct 21, 2002, 4:20 PM
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Doubles are great. You really have to pay attention to rope travel to realize the benefit though. If you don't pay attention to which rope you are clipping and the rope travel you can get them criss crossing. Also, you don't always clip them alternating, it depends on rope travel and protection availability. You really need a fair amount of experience to used them properly and safely. I use Mammut Genesis.
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climbincajun
Oct 21, 2002, 4:44 PM
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I have used doubles to great satisfaction for a couple reasons. Yes, they eliminate much sketch factor leading near your limit, clipping, etc. But they do take practice and extra attention.
We like them for long routes that require a two rope rappel. You can climb on both ropes as a single. This eliminates the need to carry or trail a second rope up the climb, and you have a lighter set ready to go for the rappel.
We used them recently on Royal Arches and were able to skip every other rappel station, making the rappel MUCH faster.
They are my partners ropes, and I dont remember the brand. I plan to make my next rope purchase doubles!
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tradguy
Oct 21, 2002, 5:31 PM
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Yes. I have Edelweiss Stratos 9mm. Love 'em. Lighter weight and noticeably less rope drag. Typically only use it on multi-pitch trad routes that require raps - I prefer to use a single 60m if I can walk off. Yes, it requires a bit more skill to belay, because you can be paying out rope on 1 line while pulling in on the other. Also, communication between climber and belayer becomes more important so the belayer knows which rope to pay out if the climber is clipping above waist level.
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wyoclimber
Oct 21, 2002, 5:34 PM
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I have used doubles for all serious climbs since i first tried them (Thanks Darkside!) this past summer. they have several benefits , rope drag being one of the obvious ones.
check Darksides profile for a link to an excellent site on double ropes.
b
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estwing
Oct 21, 2002, 5:42 PM
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Thanks for all the feedback. Doubles are starting to sound like a good idea.
Sam
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mrsleazy
Oct 23, 2002, 9:17 PM
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I just started using them on a recent trip to Yosemite, after resisting for years, and I was impressed. There are pros and cons, though the pros I think outweigh the cons by a long shot.
Cons:
1. costs more than a single (unless you factor in the cost of a trail line, then it is cheaper)
2. snarly ropes (experience helps with this one)
3. more rope stretch when falling, and inevitably a bit more slack in the lead belay
4. not good for lots of air time
Pros
1. if done properly, can completely and utterly eliminate rope drag. Very big pro.
2. helps with rappels, and eliminates a trail line
3. if your leader is hurt, you have 2 ropes to work with for rescue
4. eliminates the clip factor (extra slack when clipping gear) and is therefore safer
5. can equalize falling forces on sketchy gear
6. reduces rope-cutting danger
There are other pros too. I found belaying the leader to be pretty easy - just pay attention to which line is being clipped, but bringing up the second was more work. Overall, for long routes they are the business. For sport routes where you might have a lot of air time, and are lowering lots, single would prob be better.
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tradguy
Oct 23, 2002, 9:32 PM
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Another con (don't get me wrong... I'm all in favor of doubles, just want you to know what you're getting into) is that rappels can be very fast and a bit more difficult to control. I weigh in somewhere in the 180-190 lbs range, and with my full lead rack, water bottle, and camera, I can easily approach 200. I've noticed, particularly with a reverso due to it's nice rounded brake edge, that rappells on my doubles are alot faster, and thus I have to work alot harder on the brake hand to keep in control. It's not a huge deal, but something to be aware of when you hook in for that first rappel.
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mrsleazy
Oct 23, 2002, 9:42 PM
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Registered: Oct 2, 2002
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Good point tradguy, yes I noticed this too. I tried a few different methods to slow things down, but was not really satisfied with any of them (eg extra biner in my rap device, autoblock below the rappel device). Perhaps a glove would be the way to go.
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