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redpiton
Jan 16, 2008, 6:38 PM
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The best advice I've seen in this thread is to send a suspect rope to Petzl directly, and let them analyze the rope and make the call. If there was any cause for concern, rest assured Petzl would do everything in their power to take care of the situation immediately. The folks in house at Petzl keep track of every incident for all of their products. Petzl has a reputation for producing top quality products and they aim to keep it that way.
Ropes aren't made "defective". They go through a rigorous testing process and each batch is thoroughly inspected. The rope mentioned in the first post is completely decimated. With all due respect, a rope does not get torn up that badly with a correctly built top-rope set-up. Something happened between lap 5 and lap 6 that caused the damage. A rope does not deteriorate on one top-rope burn on a fairly new kernmantle rope. Also, the fact that this happened at the 6 meter mark is what is potentially even more suspicious. That area will see stress from common lead falls, but not top-roping. Again, I'm not sure how high this route was, so this point may be moot.
I have experienced premature rope wear with thicker ropes like the Zephyr, but it resembles the latter photos showing the rope as "fuzzy", not a dramatic core shot like the first post. I feel that there are some things missing from the equation, and I personally wouldn't encourage or advocate the need for any type of dramatic concern with the Petzl line of ropes.
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qwert
Jan 16, 2008, 6:51 PM
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all are talking aobut the 6 meter mark. what is it? is it just the fact that the sheath pulverized at 6 meters, or is there really a marking at 6 meters (like for example mammut has, to make it easier to see when your near the end of the rope).
if so, could it be that they had used some paint that shouldnt have been used?
qwert
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shimanilami
Jan 16, 2008, 6:57 PM
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You said the rope was three months old. Had you climbed with it during those three months or was this the first time it was used?
If you'd climbed on it before and hadn't noticed any issues, I must ask, "What was different this time?" It seems unlikely that the rope would suddenly develop such problems - especially at a specific spot (i.e. 6m mark) - unless something (e.g. chemical or UV exposure) happened to it. Decay rates just don't "spike" like that on their own.
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jeff_m
Jan 16, 2008, 7:38 PM
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To emphasize:
Petzl makes excellent, solid, safe gear. And, if we were the only ones who had this immediate wear in basically the same area of the rope as others have reported, then it would've carried an entirely different tone and, of course, the rigging, anchor and gear would all be suspect and wholeheartedly debated. If you read the other thread you'll see that the sheath problems are similar.
The rope was sent back to the retailer for a credit for a different rope. The fact that with this specific rope having these issues, my partner didn't want another Zephyr. The retailer has supposedly sent it back to Petzl, but that's what is being sorted out right now.
Again, I have every confidence that Petzl will take care of this issue and I look forward to posting a happy ending that this is a limited situation. From all accounts, their other ropes are bomber (as is all their other gear I use continuously, as do you).
If you have a Zephyr, keep an eye on it. If not, then hold off on the speculation until Petzl can report on the returned ropes with "50% are a sheath weave problem."
Thanks.
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cracklover
Jan 16, 2008, 9:53 PM
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Jeff, is there any reason why you're not answering questions about it?
GO
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drkayak
Jan 16, 2008, 10:36 PM
Post #32 of 156
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Anyone know how Petzl marks the rope? I have a new 9.8mm Nomad and clearly there is a restriction where the center mark is. Like the sheath is tighter there.
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socalclimber
Jan 17, 2008, 3:38 AM
Post #33 of 156
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jeff_m wrote: To emphasize: Petzl makes excellent, solid, safe gear. And, if we were the only ones who had this immediate wear in basically the same area of the rope as others have reported, then it would've carried an entirely different tone and, of course, the rigging, anchor and gear would all be suspect and wholeheartedly debated. If you read the other thread you'll see that the sheath problems are similar. The rope was sent back to the retailer for a credit for a different rope. The fact that with this specific rope having these issues, my partner didn't want another Zephyr. The retailer has supposedly sent it back to Petzl, but that's what is being sorted out right now. Again, I have every confidence that Petzl will take care of this issue and I look forward to posting a happy ending that this is a limited situation. From all accounts, their other ropes are bomber (as is all their other gear I use continuously, as do you). If you have a Zephyr, keep an eye on it. If not, then hold off on the speculation until Petzl can report on the returned ropes with "50% are a sheath weave problem." Thanks.
Jeff, all that I am saying is, it would have helped in the analysis process if you had provided pictures of the anchor/top rope setup along with the damage to the rope. Also, it would have been nice if you had provided the link above in your initial post:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Returning the rope to the retailer for credit is all fine and dandy, but I don't think this was the best way to handle the situation.
I would have contacted Petz IMMEDIATELY and told them who I bought the rope from so you could seek some form of compensation if it indeed turned out to be a problem with the rope. This would give Petzl an immediate heads up from the "end users" perspective rather than the retailer's second hand info.
I urge you to do this tomorrow. I am seriously considering doing this myself and alerting them to this thread so they have the oppurtunity to respond publicly to this since it is now in the publics eye on the Internet.
Just my thoughts.
Robert
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jan 17, 2008, 3:43 AM)
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freeclimbTN
Jan 17, 2008, 4:57 AM
Post #34 of 156
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ever since this issue was raised the last time I have been extra hard on my FUSE 9.4 and have still seen nothing like what is going on with the zephyr. Just to throw my experience in...
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crankingclimber
Jan 17, 2008, 7:09 AM
Post #35 of 156
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So, I've checked my rope, and the one I have is the Nomad. 5 days use, and it looks like hammered dog crap. An entry level Beal lasts MUCH longer. Absolutely worthless rope.
Will
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granite_grrl
Jan 17, 2008, 12:24 PM
Post #36 of 156
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crankingclimber wrote: So, I've checked my rope, and the one I have is the Nomad. 5 days use, and it looks like hammered dog crap. An entry level Beal lasts MUCH longer. Absolutely worthless rope. Will
Can you provide photos please. After my experiance with the Nomad (which was quite good) I was starting to think it was a Zephyr specific problem. I would like to see if some Nomads have the same problems.
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crankingclimber
Jan 17, 2008, 3:51 PM
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I will if I can get a hold of a camera, but I don't own one, and since I just moved to Boulder, don't have a place to stay yet and know a grand total of about 3 people, that might not happen right away. For now, imagine a few feet in from either end, the rope has become so fuzzed out it looks like a dog chew toy, and the actual weave of the sheath has 'loosened' to where you can see the core through holes in the pattern. And, it's pressed flat like a fettucini noodle, and is so pliable that it takes almost no force to bend it in a complete U-turn, with no light showing where the 180 degree ben is in that U. It's actually worse than my cheapo Beal was.
Will
PS I've heard through the grapevine about lots of Petzl ropes being garbage - I was able to pro-deal this one though so I thought it might be worth it - I was wrong.
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j_ung
Jan 17, 2008, 6:00 PM
Post #38 of 156
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socalclimber wrote: jeff_m wrote: To emphasize: Petzl makes excellent, solid, safe gear. And, if we were the only ones who had this immediate wear in basically the same area of the rope as others have reported, then it would've carried an entirely different tone and, of course, the rigging, anchor and gear would all be suspect and wholeheartedly debated. If you read the other thread you'll see that the sheath problems are similar. The rope was sent back to the retailer for a credit for a different rope. The fact that with this specific rope having these issues, my partner didn't want another Zephyr. The retailer has supposedly sent it back to Petzl, but that's what is being sorted out right now. Again, I have every confidence that Petzl will take care of this issue and I look forward to posting a happy ending that this is a limited situation. From all accounts, their other ropes are bomber (as is all their other gear I use continuously, as do you). If you have a Zephyr, keep an eye on it. If not, then hold off on the speculation until Petzl can report on the returned ropes with "50% are a sheath weave problem." Thanks. Jeff, all that I am saying is, it would have helped in the analysis process if you had provided pictures of the anchor/top rope setup along with the damage to the rope. Also, it would have been nice if you had provided the link above in your initial post: http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Returning the rope to the retailer for credit is all fine and dandy, but I don't think this was the best way to handle the situation. I would have contacted Petz IMMEDIATELY and told them who I bought the rope from so you could seek some form of compensation if it indeed turned out to be a problem with the rope. This would give Petzl an immediate heads up from the "end users" perspective rather than the retailer's second hand info. I urge you to do this tomorrow. I am seriously considering doing this myself and alerting them to this thread so they have the oppurtunity to respond publicly to this since it is now in the publics eye on the Internet. Just my thoughts. Robert
I'll be very careful to limit this post to information I know first hand or that Petzl has confirmed to me directly.
Petzl already knows this thread exists, as they do the one from September, 2007. They've had at least two shredded Zephyrs sent back in -- one phlsphr returned to the retailer who then sent it in and another, which I sent only weeks ago. The latest it's possible for Petzl to have first learned of a potential problem with Zephyrs is spring, 2007. That's when I first alerted them to problems I was having with my original cord. After not hearing back from them, I posted my review update in July. The earliest Zephyr I know that ended up with Petzl for evaluation is phlsphr's, which they received some time in September or October, 2007.
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socalclimber
Jan 18, 2008, 1:23 AM
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Good deal. I'm glad to hear this. I also received a nice PM from jeff_m concerning this. I am eagerly awaiting a response from Petzl.
Thanks to all for the way this was handled and my appologies if I came off on the harsh side.
Robert Fonda
Joshua Tree CA
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elwood54
Jan 18, 2008, 4:20 PM
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I just called the shop where I bought my Zephyr and they said that they would take it back with a full refund. I'm getting this time bomb out of my hands asap.
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Adk
Jan 18, 2008, 4:46 PM
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elwood54 wrote: I just called the shop where I bought my Zephyr and they said that they would take it back with a full refund.
Glad to hear the Petzl is taking care of this so quickly and they aren't dragging their feet.
Great company with great gear. Cudos to the Petzl team.
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elwood54
Jan 18, 2008, 6:00 PM
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I don't want to give the impression that Petzl had anything to do with accepting my return. The store said that if it was an issue of safety, they would take back the product. I'll see if this is true tomorrow when I head over with the rope. As far as I know, Petzl hasn't released a statement on the issue.
(This post was edited by elwood54 on Jan 19, 2008, 11:04 PM)
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zuegma
Jan 18, 2008, 9:14 PM
Post #43 of 156
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What really dissapoints me about petzel ropes i how expensive they are. I mean most of the time when you pay more for a product it is better in some way shape or form. Although this doesnt seem the case with some petzel ropes. Not to be bashing petzel or anything, as i love and use their other products. Although when your paying that much for a rope, you would expect that it was high quality. I'm glad to hear that petzel is taking action although i think that it would be nice if they could make a public statement about the situation, and let us know what is going on.
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chossmonkey
Jan 18, 2008, 11:59 PM
Post #44 of 156
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j_ung wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Has anyone experiaced these problems with any Petzl ropes other than the Zephyr? On the contrary, I've heard a few good reports now about both the Nomad and the Fuse. Any bad I've heard falls well within the bounds of heresay, e.g., "I had a friend who said he hated it."
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robdotcalm
Jan 19, 2008, 6:14 PM
Post #45 of 156
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Just out of curiousity does anybody know who actually manufactures the Petzl ropes? I assume it's not Petzl, since they've never before manufactured ropes.
r.c
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Adk
Jan 19, 2008, 7:05 PM
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This is what I came up with when I did a search
Date: Friday, January 1 1999
PMI and Petzl agreed to separate their joint distribution efforts in September. Petzl of Croll, France, will create its own North American distribution facility located in Clearfield, Utah, and will be known as Petzl America. PMI will continue to manufacture its line of life safety ropes and distribute products for the sport, work and rescue markets from its factory in LaFayette, Ga.
I do not know if this is still the case or not though.
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knudenoggin
Jan 19, 2008, 9:16 PM
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cracklover wrote: Scary stuff, thanks for posting! Can you say anything about why this might be?
Very strange!? It's as though the material isn't the usual, durable
nylon, but maybe PP or something happened to the nylon fibres there?!
--that's really extraordinary wear.
So far, nothing about this from Petzl?
*kN*
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ja1484
Jan 19, 2008, 9:27 PM
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zuegma wrote: What really dissapoints me about petzel ropes i how expensive they are. I mean most of the time when you pay more for a product it is better in some way shape or form. Although this doesnt seem the case with some petzel ropes. Not to be bashing petzel or anything, as i love and use their other products. Although when your paying that much for a rope, you would expect that it was high quality. I'm glad to hear that petzel is taking action although i think that it would be nice if they could make a public statement about the situation, and let us know what is going on.
Price can be put aside, as a lot of things can be said about a lot of company's pricing, but let's not muddle the issue. Let's keep a nice focus on the Petzl rope line and safety concerns here.
robdotcalm wrote: Just out of curiousity does anybody know who actually manufactures the Petzl ropes? I assume it's not Petzl, since they've never before manufactured ropes. r.c
Cousin, in France, actually manufactures the ropes. They're just sold under the Petzl brand. Cousin is well known and respected for bomber soft goods. You can peruse their website here:
http://www.cousin-trestec.com/...es/cordes-bateau.php
PMI and Petzl are not related that I am aware of, other than they apparently shared distribution networks at one point. But as far as I know, PMI did not manufacture Petzl's lines. In fact, IIRC, Beal makes cores for PMI's dynamic rope, and PMI does their own sheathing, static cores, and tech cords.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on Jan 19, 2008, 9:30 PM)
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sausalito
Jan 19, 2008, 9:43 PM
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Adk wrote: elwood54 wrote: I just called the shop where I bought my Zephyr and they said that they would take it back with a full refund. Glad to hear the Petzl is taking care of this so quickly and they aren't dragging their feet. Great company with great gear. Cudos to the Petzl team.
I dont think his local gear shop is petzl... petzl seems to have done very little about this so far. If I am not mistaken this dude is talking about the place where he purchased the rope.
Also why are people saying the best thing to do is send it to the company? Jung has said he sent one back in the spring of 2007 and didnt hear jack about it. Are you folks idealistic? Corporations are not very good at policing themselves.
I think the best thing to do is for the end consumer, you, to take any petzl rope you are concerned about back to the shop and get a refund or exchange for a new and different brand of rope. Print off this thread and other like it for proof of its crapiness. My guess is most shops will likely take the rope back knowing they will just send it back to Petzl for a credit. If Petzl is getting one rope here and there they may continue to drag ass. If they get several shops to send their entire inventory of ropes back to them that will get their ass in gear.
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elwood54
Jan 19, 2008, 11:09 PM
Post #50 of 156
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In reply to: I think the best thing to do is for the end consumer, you, to take any petzl rope you are concerned about back to the shop and get a refund or exchange for a new and different brand of rope. Print off this thread and other like it for proof of its crapiness. My guess is most shops will likely take the rope back knowing they will just send it back to Petzl for a credit. If Petzl is getting one rope here and there they may continue to drag ass. If they get several shops to send their entire inventory of ropes back to them that will get their ass in gear.
I agree completely. The store rep tried to guilt trip me by saying "well, we can't resell this because we're not sure how its been used." I took my store credit with a clear conscience and left the print out of this forum with them...the point being that they shouldn't sell this rope regardless of its condition (new or not) if there are legitimate safety concerns with its manufacturing.
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