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dr_feelgood
Jan 24, 2008, 8:40 PM
Post #26 of 42
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Whoo!
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tomtom
Jan 24, 2008, 10:20 PM
Post #27 of 42
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hex wrote: I'd say the Grivel Alpwings. Its a great alpine tool and has a nice swing for ice.
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skidawg
Jan 26, 2008, 5:45 PM
Post #28 of 42
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Thanks for all the replies, I was expecting to hear a ton of different opinions, and they have all been very helpful. I am actually leaning heavily towards getting a pair of the Grivel Light Wings (adze and hammer). The light wings seem like they would plunge better than the Alp Wings? Anyway, if anyone has any pros or cons for this axe as far as versatility, weight, performance etc...then fire away. Thanks again.
cheers,
Justin
BTW...are these the light wings?
http://www.mtntools.com/...lightwingicetool.htm
Because they look very different than on the Grivel site (I'm having trouble finding them to purchase...any suggestions???????)
http://www.grivelnorthamerica.com/....php?gid=2&id=13
(This post was edited by skidawg on Jan 26, 2008, 6:35 PM)
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skiclimb
Jan 27, 2008, 11:23 AM
Post #29 of 42
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still wondering why 2 of the same tools? This won't help water ice or mixed if the tool is any good for genaral mountaineering.
And if both are ok for general mountaineering then you are unecesarily holding yourself back on one tool that might as well be excelent for water ice/mixed.
climbing with two mediocre tools on water/mixed is worse than climbing with 2 diff tools where one is medoicre and one is excellent.
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fenderfour
Jan 27, 2008, 3:17 PM
Post #30 of 42
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brent_e wrote: paintrain wrote: I would disagree about the cobra not plunging well, but everyone has an opinion. I don't like climbing steep ice with two different tools, but I also don't spend a lot of times on crevassed glaciers either. The two different tool recommends are fine, but there are better options than old style straight tools these days for a long plunging tool. Look at the BD venom or the grivel Air Tech Evo. Each gives a little more usefulness when you have to actually swing the axe. The grivel has a deployable pinky rest as well for better steep climbing. I think House/Anderson used a couple of these on Nanga parbat, but they had two shorties for the leader on the hard pitches. PT here is the gear house used. h http://ttp:/.../watch?v=oIkmYiwbZWg the grivel's can have a slider on them that makes it easier to climb vertical ice but will plunge well with it slid up. i've never used this setup, but steve house and anderson are superstars. Brent
Just remember that you are not Steve House. He is a better climber than you and can make due with a lot less.
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tomtom
Jan 27, 2008, 3:47 PM
Post #31 of 42
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The mtntools page shows an older version of the Light Wing. The most recent version comes with a steel spike and pinky guards as shown on the Grivel page. The major difference now between the alp wing and light wing is that the alp wing has the rubber grip vs. a strip of sandpaper. Rumor has it the sandpaper is tough on gloves. You can always take the pinky guard off for alpine climbs.
Just checking the Girvel website, it looks like both the alp wing and light wing are history.
(This post was edited by tomtom on Jan 28, 2008, 10:39 PM)
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secretninja
Jan 27, 2008, 5:21 PM
Post #32 of 42
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This might seem like a dumb point to make, but if you already have an axe that is more suited to the mountaineering side of things, why not use that for your approachs/summits and rock a pait of ice tools that will allow you to have a better time on steep ice or while drytooling? A "do it all axe" will only end up doing a bunch of stuff adequately, rather than exceling at anything in particular. Personally, for mixed and steep ice, i'd look at at nomics or taakaoons. i rock nomics for steep ice and BD venoms for my more mountaineerish exploits, or a single raven if i dont need anything really technical. Good luck man, go hit the ice.
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chedontsurf
Jan 28, 2008, 7:29 AM
Post #33 of 42
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have you ever seen anyone play hockey in speed skates? it doen't work so great, but they're great for speed skating in. what i'm saying is that if you make that sacrifice, you'll end up with something that's either good for one thing or the other, or it'll be neither here nor there at both. ask yourself this, what will i do more? technical? then maybe buy bent shaft tools and carry a light 70 cm(about $50) mountain tool on your pack for low-angled stuff. the best all-around tool i know of is the grivel alp wing. a pair of those got steve house up the rupal face of nanga parbat.
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the_climber
Jan 28, 2008, 9:24 PM
Post #35 of 42
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stymingersfink wrote: durr... fenderfour wrote:
Just remember that you are not Steve House. He is a better climber than you and can make due with a lot less.in fact, if my memory serves me correct... Having dropped a boot shell, didn't he finish one climb with only a boot liner on one foot?
That would be on the North Face of North Twin (Canada Chossies). I believe it was basically the 2nd ascent of the Lowe-Jones route. With a few variations, something like 3 decades after the 1st ascent. Although I believe they were trying to do a completely new route... untill the Farm Boy dropped his boot. He also had to hike around to the Athabaska glacier, and down the length of it afterwards with only the liner on one foot. Bue hey, he had Duct Tape!
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paintrain
Jan 28, 2008, 11:13 PM
Post #36 of 42
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Registered: Feb 17, 2004
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fenderfour wrote: Just remember that you are not Steve House. He is a better climber than you and can make due with a lot less.
I did check my license, so I confirmed your suspicion. I am not Steve House, though I look a little like Vince Anderson from the waist down.
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fenderfour
Jan 28, 2008, 11:46 PM
Post #37 of 42
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Too many times i've heard:
"well, (enter barely sufficient gear choice here) is good enough for (enter alpine badass here). What do you know that they don't?"
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paintrain
Jan 29, 2008, 4:38 AM
Post #38 of 42
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If you watched the patagonia vid on his gear choices for Nanga parbat, he doesn't scrimp cause he's so disgustingly strong at 8000m, but approaches the climb considering versatility as well as specific performance. Two short tools for the leader and those evo's for the follower. Easier slopes they would trade one, so each had a plunger. Watch it, you will rarely see such a thought out set of gear.
When they are badasses they don't need to scrimp or get by on shotty gear. Since there are soooo many good performing tools out there, it is just a matter of preference. It is nice to see the tactics of the good climbers. You can learn something, since they just don't get by on their strength.
Pt
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superbum
Feb 7, 2008, 3:44 AM
Post #39 of 42
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I bought the Patzl Aztars for most of the same reasons that you outline as important feature...was that a runon sentence?
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brent_e
Feb 7, 2008, 5:59 PM
Post #40 of 42
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Registered: Dec 15, 2004
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fenderfour wrote: brent_e wrote: paintrain wrote: I would disagree about the cobra not plunging well, but everyone has an opinion. I don't like climbing steep ice with two different tools, but I also don't spend a lot of times on crevassed glaciers either. The two different tool recommends are fine, but there are better options than old style straight tools these days for a long plunging tool. Look at the BD venom or the grivel Air Tech Evo. Each gives a little more usefulness when you have to actually swing the axe. The grivel has a deployable pinky rest as well for better steep climbing. I think House/Anderson used a couple of these on Nanga parbat, but they had two shorties for the leader on the hard pitches. PT here is the gear house used. h http://ttp:/.../watch?v=oIkmYiwbZWg the grivel's can have a slider on them that makes it easier to climb vertical ice but will plunge well with it slid up. i've never used this setup, but steve house and anderson are superstars. Brent Just remember that you are not Steve House. He is a better climber than you and can make due with a lot less.
thank you. I am, in fact, much crappier a climber than steve house, and probably you, too. But the point was not how amazing steve house is, or the fact that steve house could climb WI7 with 4 implements that said henckles on them, but that he had a good setup that seemed to work for a similar application.
yup, steve house. superstar.
Brent
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fenderfour
Feb 7, 2008, 6:41 PM
Post #41 of 42
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point successfully missed.
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brent_e
Feb 8, 2008, 11:38 PM
Post #42 of 42
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fenderfour wrote: point successfully missed.
fenderfour wrote: Too many times i've heard: "well, (enter barely sufficient gear choice here) is good enough for (enter alpine badass here). What do you know that they don't?"
if that was your point i think i got it. But I thought it was obvious enough. But, while you think some "alpine badass" can make due with insufficient gear, which they definitely can more than most, they will also be climbing something that is likely harder than you, and they will also have the opportunity to try whatever they want (given sponsorship). If they have the option to try anything, why would they use something that is shit for their application? if your application is similar to theirs, but perhaps less extreme, why wouldn't something similar work?
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