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Synthlab
Oct 10, 2007, 12:11 AM
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My roommate has it, 2 or my climbing buddies have it, now im starting to get a dull ache in my left elbow from climbing. Sounds like a very common climbing injury and i was wondering if some of you guys wanna share some info on treating this correctly so it doesn't get any worse. My roomy climbs with an elbow brace on and that seems to help it for a while, but i would think that it would be restricting the moves you could do with that arm.
So suggestions on treating this annoying elbow ache?
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kovacs69
Oct 10, 2007, 12:24 AM
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Synthlab wrote: My roommate has it, 2 or my climbing buddies have it, now im starting to get a dull ache in my left elbow from climbing. Sounds like a very common climbing injury and i was wondering if some of you guys wanna share some info on treating this correctly so it doesn't get any worse. My roomy climbs with an elbow brace on and that seems to help it for a while, but i would think that it would be restricting the moves you could do with that arm. So suggestions on treating this annoying elbow ache?
Quit wacking off so much. LOL.
Just kidding.
Describe how it hurts. Where exactly does it hurt. What you are doing that makes it hurt.
JB
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Synthlab
Oct 10, 2007, 12:46 AM
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kovacs69 wrote: Synthlab wrote: My roommate has it, 2 or my climbing buddies have it, now im starting to get a dull ache in my left elbow from climbing. Sounds like a very common climbing injury and i was wondering if some of you guys wanna share some info on treating this correctly so it doesn't get any worse. My roomy climbs with an elbow brace on and that seems to help it for a while, but i would think that it would be restricting the moves you could do with that arm. So suggestions on treating this annoying elbow ache? Quit wacking off so much. LOL. Just kidding. Describe how it hurts. Where exactly does it hurt. What you are doing that makes it hurt. JB
Well, now that you mention it, it is my wanking arm, but im pretty sure the pain is from climbing. Its hard to describe where it hurts (i would say it hurts right on top of the joint). it hurts the most when im topping out and putting alot of pressure on that arm to push myself up. Also, it started as a very mild, almost unnoticeable ache, but every day since it started, it just gets a little bit worse. Today it was feeling like a dull growing pain. I just want to correct the problem before it gets to the point where it hurts too much to climb.
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blankflag
Oct 10, 2007, 2:21 AM
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In my completely non-professional and unreliable opinion, you've probably climbed your way into some tendinitis. If you search the forums for 'elbow tendinitis' you'll have several thousands of posts to go through and then you can pick out the treatment method of your choice. :) You will need to rest it -- as in, not climb hard on it -- but it might not get any better if you just sit still on the couch and eat cheetos, either. If it hasn't gotten serious, some rest along with some stretching and strengthening exercises, and perhaps a little ice cube massage at the end of the day should help it clear up.
Cheers!
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fjclimbsrocks
Oct 10, 2007, 2:54 AM
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Tendonitis and tennis elbow are pretty common among climbers. Give it a week of rest, and see what happens. No improvement...doctor time (or at least something more reliable than strangers online)
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gollum
Oct 10, 2007, 3:35 AM
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Use an elbow brace and avoid crimps, that might help too
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kovacs69
Oct 10, 2007, 1:35 PM
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Synthlab wrote: fjclimbsrocks wrote: Tendonitis and tennis elbow are pretty common among climbers. Give it a week of rest, and see what happens. No improvement...doctor time (or at least something more reliable than strangers online) Tendonitis eh?  Ok then, i'll do some searching on the forums and web to see if i can come up with any remedies. Thanks!
Yep, thats what I was thinking. Ice and advil. There is also some rehab you can do but it will probably be easier to find it online than me explaining plus the sites should have some nice pictures. If you can't find the rehab online let me know. The rehab will use a bungee or theraband (big flat rubber band). Just so you know what you are looking for.
JB
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dta95b7r
Oct 10, 2007, 1:57 PM
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I had the same problem (climber elbow), I found that doing push ups and avoiding crimps till my elbow was better solved it. Thats my .02
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drjghl
Oct 10, 2007, 6:32 PM
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If you hold your injured arm out in front of you with the palm facing down, do you have pain near the bony knob on the top of the elbow or bottom of the elbow? Now if you move your wrist up or down against resistance, which makes the pain worse. This will give you some idea if you have medial or lateral epicondylitis. I think a lot of climbers get these injuries because they don't rest enough. Usually an overuse injury.
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mtengaio
Feb 17, 2008, 6:13 PM
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So obviously epicondylitis is from overuse. I have pain in both areas of my elbows that is not serious yet but I can tell is slowly getting worse the harder I push – especially now that it's indoor season for me. Climbing on plastic and doing deadhangs on a fingerboard really aggravates it and I'm sure it's from doing too much climbing in a session. I use a computer/mouse daily at work so that doesn't help either.
My question is: Is a complete break from climbing necessary with this type of overuse injury? My everyday life, (opening doors, etc.) isn't affected so much by the injury and I obviously want to avoid it getting to that point.
I do a lot of steep climbing/bouldering when climbing indoors and that's when it seems to really bug me. So I'd imagine staying off crimpy, steep routes would be a start. However, would sticking to vertical/slabby jug routes (endurance stuff) be harmful if not pushed to exhaustion? Any advice anyone?
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chillipphi
Feb 17, 2008, 7:18 PM
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I've nursed myself back from several climbing related injuries over the last two years and these two sites I found to be the most helpful
http://www.climbinginjuries.com/
and
http://www.davemacleod.com/articles.htm
This first one gives a lot of detail for several different types of injuries. Doesn't replace going to the doctor if it doesn't get better soon but some rest and a few exercises worked for me. The DaveMacleod page talks about this cold therapy for fingers that he says also helps for elbow pain. Look into that for more details. I used it when I strained my ring finger and it seemed to help.
For elbow pain, exercises that I found worked for me were pushups, bicep curls with low weight, and wrist curls with a can of soup. I also used a wooden dowel with a string attached to it and a 5lb weight once the soup can was too easy.
Good luck, hope you heal up soon
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drjghl
Feb 18, 2008, 3:42 PM
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There is nothing magical or esoteric about these types of injuries. Overuse injuries are common. Due to people pushing too hard and/or not getting enough rest between activities.
If you stress the fibers that attach a muscle to the bone, you can injure the fibers. But not to the degree that you are symptomatic. Normally, with rest the fibers heal and all is good and well. But. If you re-injure the fibers before they heal again and again and again, eventually you will get significant swelling and ultimately pain. When it comes down to it, rest is basically the only treatment. Your body is constantly trying to heal all types of injuries.
The key to prevention is getting rest between strenuous activities and/or keeping the level of stress low enough that an unrecognized injury does not occur. If I'm climbing four days straight, I won't climb at my max every day and we'll mix it up.
treatment: activity as tolerated. If it hurts, don't do it. Injuries may take weeks to months to heal.
As a climber, I recommend being careful when climbing at your max: you can rupture or tear a muscle fiber/tendon.
And variety. I always mix it up. Climb slabs, crimpy stuff, stemming corners, hand cracks, finger cracks, juggy shit. You condition your entire body and avoid repetitive stuff while your body heals and gets stronger overall.
Climb long and prosper.
(This post was edited by drjghl on Feb 18, 2008, 3:47 PM)
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mtengaio
Feb 18, 2008, 7:00 PM
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I had no idea that injury site existed…thanks.
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shockabuku
Feb 18, 2008, 7:23 PM
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Last time I had that happen to me I took two weeks off completely then went back and gave up bouldering, hangboarding, and campusing for a few months. I just worked routes, occasionally some harder ones but generally endurance, not power. After about 4-6 months (I really can't remember clearly) I started bouldering again and after about another two(?) started back on the hangboard a little. Sometimes I could feel it starting to get a little tender again and just backed off for a few days. After the 2 week break I was probably climbing about 3 day/week avg. YMMV, I'm 41.
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onceahardman
Feb 18, 2008, 9:53 PM
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Personally, I have treated this injury in myself, very successfully. My problem was a persistent spasm in pronator teres Which originates at the common flexor tendon at the medial epicondyle of the elbow. I was 100% better in less than a week, after being chronic for over a year.
I used a spasm reduction technique which, unfortunately, would be nearly impossible to describe in this format.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...e:Pronator-teres.png
Otherwise, I agree strongly with drjghl, above.
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dynosore
Feb 18, 2008, 10:16 PM
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I've had medial epicondylitis for a couple years now. I can control it with the combination of stretches, strengthening exercises, and a tension band on my forearm. Don't ignore your body, you will be sorry!
edtied to say: I think a big part of my problem came from avoiding slopers and crimping all the time, cuz that's what I'm good at. Climbing and training on more varied holds has helped me a lot.
(This post was edited by dynosore on Feb 18, 2008, 10:18 PM)
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stonefoxgirl
Feb 19, 2008, 4:10 AM
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Might I add also that after this type of injury heals (to some degree) it is important to pay attention to the agonist and antagonist muscle groups. Both are very important especially with this type of maintenance. Climbers tend to be anatomically 'off-balance' if all you do is climb. I can't stress enough how important it is to equalize all muscle groups as climbers.
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mtengaio
Feb 19, 2008, 4:50 PM
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I agree on balancing the muscles and I do lift weights a couple of times a week, mainly focusing on higher reps over higher weight.
I've noticed that I also have some pain at the top of my outside elbow where the triceps come down to the elbow. Anyone have any idea about this type of injury?
I used to lift weights religiously before I started climbing about 9 years ago. I have since eliminated certain muscle workouts due to lack of time, etc. For example I don't do bicep or tricep workouts anymore and am starting to think that I need to incorporate these workouts back into my weekly weightlifting regimine. Would anyone agree with this?
BTW I'm 37, climb indoors about 2 week right now (winter off-season) and climb about 12+/13- range (on a good day!)
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athletikspesifik
Mar 22, 2008, 4:08 PM
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onceahardman, I have been reading through the shoulder/elbow/finger injury posts and have discovered that you and I have some very similar musculoskeletal issues.
I have had a right-side AC decompression/glenoid labral tear, multiple rotator cuff tears and recently a mild AC separation from a broken hold on a topout. My left side has had a grade 3 AC separation - no lingering pain, but markedly decreased strength.
In addition, I have had a tight pronator teres in my right forearm for at least 6-7 years (my flexor carpi ulnaris on both forearms may have this issue???). I have had some bouts of what I thought were tendonosis, but, have been relatively pain free. My solutions to elbow tendonitis/osis are a nice easy warm-up followed by range of motion exercises. Then, progressively advance to more and more difficult climbing (actually bouldering) with low volume, fairly non-pumpy problems. Do whatever session I do that day, then cool down with easy bouldering/traversing followed by static stretching. To help my forearms recover and hopefully avoid tendon issues, I have used (after I return home from climbing), with general success, a vibrating percussion massager (G5) and a Compex EMS (active recovery mode). Things that didn't seem to work were ice baths or direct ice application.
I was hoping that you could post a paper or list some resource for myself, and maybe others who are interested in 'spasm reduction technique'?
p.s. please don't recommend any time off from climbing...I have some sort of mental pathology that inhibits that sort rational/logical thought.
David Wahl
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nklotz
Mar 22, 2008, 7:11 PM
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You should try looking at this website. I always find WebMd helpful: http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/tennis-elbow-lateral-epicondylitis
Good luck.
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onceahardman
Mar 22, 2008, 11:55 PM
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Hi Dave...
Sorry to hear you share some of my aches and pains.
Manual therapy is really impossible to teach without actual hands on demonstration. The technique I used on my own pronator teres was adapted from the Strain Counterstrain techniques taught by the Jones institute:
http://www.jiscs.com/Article.aspx?a=0
Also, I have treated quite a few chronic elbow patients sucessfully using Brian Mulligan's "MWMs"
I consider Mulligan to be among the best manual therapists in the world. He's in New Zealand, and doesn't travel much any more.
See, for example:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/...36550f3c9b648a868292
Sorry for the long url, I hope it works. If not, just google "Mulligan MWM" It's simple, but not easy.
EDIT:
It is difficult to impossible to self-treat using manual therapy. Honest, I'm not trying to drum up business for manual therapists. It's just that you'd need 3 hands and two brains to do most of the Mulligan stuff to yourself. Clinically, you often need your own two hands plus a belt.
(This post was edited by onceahardman on Mar 23, 2008, 12:04 AM)
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athletikspesifik
Mar 23, 2008, 12:34 AM
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Thanks for the info, I found 1 therapist in the Denver/Boulder area who is SCS certified. Do you know/could recommend anyone in the area? Should I just look for a 'Manual Therapist' instead of looking for a specific MVM or SCS Therapist?
David Wahl
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onceahardman
Mar 23, 2008, 12:31 PM
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Sorry Dave, I'm in western NY state, I dont know anybody out there.
It's not MVM, it's MWM, which stands for "mobilization with movement", try googling Brian Mulligan...NAGS SNAGS MWM.
EDITED:
Heres a little more about Mulligan. Doesn't look like there is anybody certified in denver/boulder....but in sterling and pueblo.
http://www.bmulligan.com/about/concept.html
(This post was edited by onceahardman on Mar 23, 2008, 1:02 PM)
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